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Mooney talks about staying away from drugs when those closest to him were wrapped up in them. (1:56)
 

Full Interview (24:01)
 

Tavis: Pleased to welcome Paul Mooney to this program. The legendary comedian and writer has enjoyed success as a stand-up comedian, writer, actor and author. His critically acclaimed new book is called "Black is the New White: A Memoir." We'll get to that in a moment. But first, here's part of a classic sketch now he wrote for the late, great Richard Pryor.

[Clip]

Tavis: Tell me the year and tell me about that sketch.

Paul Mooney: Well, that was in the '70s, and we were, like, psychic. We knew it would happen, so we were just ahead of our times. And you notice that he looks like Obama. Same complexion, same attitude. Yeah, so it was fun to be in the future, and that just brought back a lot of memories for me and I'm just real sorry that Richard didn't live long enough to see this, because we knew it was going to happen.

Tavis: Let's talk about Richard for just a second here. Actually, more than just a second, because he's Richard Pryor. First question - that sketch was part of a show on NBC that Richard only stayed with for four episodes. After the fourth episode, he walked.

Mooney: Well, we had a special so it was five.

Tavis: Five, okay. Why was Richard unhappy about that?

Mooney: Well, it was a lot of pressure for Richard, and he was doing drugs so - and he was, like, hemmed in; like, cornered. The creativity part of it was fun but the pressure of being funny and being brilliant, that's a lot of pressure.

Tavis: He didn't feel trapped by -

Mooney: And I'm glad that you know - it was Richard. It wasn't NBC, because of what we call - the White people, we call them suits. The suits, they were loving this because they were like vampires before Richard came around. Now they could get up and suck blood. They made all the decisions, you can't say this, you can say this. They had a life.

They could reap their power, and they were loving every bit of Richard. If it was up to the executive producers and the people at NBC, Richard would be on the air right now.

Tavis: But how frustrated was Richard by being told how to channel his creativity? You can say this, you can't say that, you can do this, you can't do that. How (unintelligible)?

Mooney: He was, but creatively we were breaking all the rules, and we knew it. We kicked the door in and we were enjoying it. But if you're high 24 hours, that's a hard thing to do. And then come to work and have to be at work. You have to be a functional person to be able to function.

I used to work with a woman who was a functional drunk, and she would come in to work at 6:00 in the morning and by 12:00 she had drank, like, four-fifths, but you would never know it. You would never know it. So some people can drink one drink and they'll be drunk, so it all depends.

Tavis: I get the sense that you have always enjoyed pushing the envelope off the table, breaking all the rules.

Mooney: Yeah, I have enjoyed it, because it's fun. (Laughter) No, it is; it's fun. It's like your show. If you told me this is - we can curse on this show, I wouldn't curse. Now if you told me there's no cursing, that's the first thing I'd come out and do.

Tavis: Well, I'm not going to say that. (Laughter) I am not going to tell Paul Mooney you can't curse on my show.

Mooney: No, but it's like - (laughter) I remember once I was doing a - it was for Dionne Warwick, she had produced a show, and it was right after one of the riots we had here. We've had so many race riots here - what is it, three, four, five? I don't know, you can't count them.

(Laughter) There was a producer from - it's like I find it funny, because "Mississippi Burning," Mississippi's never burned. L.A.'s burned several times. But anyway - (laughter) racially, so I find that interesting.

Anyway, so the producer was from Chicago and I was warming up their audience and I was writing for the show, and the producer said to me, "There's a lot of people that are famous and I guess (unintelligible) and let's not talk about the riot." It was like the day after it.

I said, "Okay, we won't," and that's the first thing that came out of my mouth. (Laughter) I told the audience, I said, "The producers told me not to talk about the riots." The audience loved it because it makes them - they're part of it, you make them a part of it.

Tavis: What's the down side, though? What obstacles do you end up creating for yourself, for those who know your comedy, when you are free enough to say whatever the heck you want to say?

Mooney: Well, it frightens people.

Tavis: It does, doesn't it?

Mooney: It frightens them and - but that's their problem, that's not my problem. I can't be responsible for anyone in the audience. I can only be responsible for Paul. I'm sitting here talking to you now. We could finish the show and you could leave and shoot 10 people, and so they're going to make me responsible because I did a show with you? "Well, what did you do to make him do that?" I have nothing to do with it.

Tavis: But what if somebody sits in your audience, Black or White, and they feel uncomfortable in their seat by the way you push so hard in your comedy?

Mooney: Well, that's why we have exit doors. (Laughter) They have to leave. You're not glued to your seat, so if you don't like it, you get up and leave. But some people are weird. Some people, mentally, they're weird. They go to a topless bar and they say, "Why doesn't she have a bra on?" They don't know where they are. (Laughter)

Tavis: You don't hold back, though, in any part of your stand-up, and especially on the race question. How did you get so bold - again, my word - so free, on the race question? Because you will stand up and just right down the middle.

Mooney: Well, I don't know about how did I get so free. I think it's innate. PEOPLE get shocked at the things I say. They tell me that, that I shock them, but things are coming out of myself; I shock myself. I'm surprised sometimes. I go, "Where did that come from?' So I don't know, it's - it's fun. It's just fun.

Race is the most important thing in America, it really is. What I get out of an audience in 15 minutes their psychiatrist can't get out of them in 15 years. (Laughter) Because people will sit and listen - I'm serious - you can talk about sex, you can talk about religion. You think things are taboo, and they'll sit there and they'll listen and they won't open their mouths, they won't respond, but you talk about race and they will flip. In five, 10 minutes they'll flip.

Tavis: Why is race such good material? Why is it such good, fertile ground to navigate?

Mooney: Because America is caught up in it, because we're a melting pot. It's just so much to have fun, there's so many different nationalities here and there are so many different races and people of different colors, and it's just fun.

Tavis: When people think that you are being impolitic - I've been in the audience with you a number of times when people think Paul is being a little impolitic. That makes you feel how? You don't even care?

Mooney: No. Look, bottom line is I'm a comedian, and comedians are like saints. We make people's lives better. (Laughter) It's true. Without us, you guys would be miserable. Especially in the political arena now, in our economy and the way the world is? We need comedians.

Tavis: Where does Paul Mooney find his funny? Where do you find the funny?

Mooney: In life. The funny is in life. The funny is in this moment now; the funny is being here with you. Because when I leave here, I'll be talking about you. (Laughter) It's like the funny is - that's what the funny is. It just is.

Tavis: You can't do it in my face? Why you got to do it after you leave?

Mooney: (Laughs) It has nothing to do with doing it in your face. (Laughter) You asked me a question. It's just - no, you become a part of it. I see funny in your show. I see funny in your staff.

Tavis: Tell me, what did you see - what do you see funny in my staff?

Mooney: All your light-skinned people that you hire. I see your racism. (Laughter) I don't see any dark, dark-skinned people.

Tavis: How many light-skinned Negroes did you see today?

Mooney: And that - I'm just saying. (Laughter) It's like BET used to be, remember?

Tavis: I think Kim and Vanessa just got called out on national television - the two light-skinned sisters who work on the show. But I'm not going to call their names - Kim and Vanessa. (Laughter)

Mooney: But I mean, no, look, funny's always there. Now see, you're laughing. You could get offended and get up and leave your own show. "I don't have to take this." (Laughter) "So my staff is light-skinned. That's none of your business." But at least you have a sense of humor. You have to keep open. But knowing you, you're going to find somebody as Black as Wesley Snipes and hire him tomorrow. (Laughter) To fix me.

Tavis: He's here; he's just in the control room. (Laughter) You just didn't see him, that's all.

Mooney: Oh, you mean your director.

Tavis: Oh, he's here. Hey, Jonathan. (Laughter) You just didn't see him, that's all. When did you know that you had this gift? And gift is my word - I assume you think it is a gift. Do you think it's a gift?

Mooney: It's just who I am. It's in your DNA. It's like my grandmother used to tell me we're like grains of wood, we're like wood. To the naked eye, wood looks the same to us, even if you touch it. It feels the same, but it's not. Oak is different from plywood. When you get up close you look at the grains and you see the grains are different.

Human beings are the same way. I knew I was funny about seven or eight. I knew the power of humor.

Tavis: Tell me more. How'd you figure that out?

Mooney: By how people reacted to you. The timing was everything. The timing was everything because I was probably - I was in high school probably not more than 17, and my teacher said to me, like, "This is a science class, this is not a football field. It's not that kind of class."

I waited three months to get in and if I'd have talked back to him then, I would have gotten in trouble and sent to the office. But three months I waited, and he said, "Paul, would you get up and shut the door?" And I said, "Get up and shut your own door." He said, "What? What'd you say?" I said, "Are you hard of hearing? Get up and shut your own door." He said, "Why are you talking to me like that?"

I said, "Because this is a science class, not a domestic class." Now everyone in the class - because I waited that long to get him.

Tavis: Timing.

Mooney: Yeah, timing. They all laughed. And the teacher said to me, "Touché." He said, "Touché," because I got him back with his own weapon. But if I'd have talked to him that day, I'd have got in trouble.

Tavis: You grew up in Louisiana.

Mooney: No, I was born there.

Tavis: Born there, okay.

Mooney: Yeah, I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up in El Cerrito and Berkeley, and people always say Oakland because my grandmother lived in west Oakland and I was always there, and so.

Tavis: Technically born in Louisiana. I raise Louisiana because I want to go to Louisiana first and then jump to the Bay Area, so thank you for taking me there. The point I'm trying to get to is how much your upbringing and the time in America when you were coming up has to do with your humor, with your kind of comedy?

Mooney: It has everything to do with it.

Tavis: Tell me more.

Mooney: Well, I'm a Southerner, and I think like a Southerner and I think like an old Baptist woman, because my grandmother was everything to me. She raised me. My mother was 15 or 16; my mother was very young when I was born. I called my mother "Darling" because I thought my mother was my girlfriend, and everybody said, "Mama."

Then my mother was very beautiful, too. I get my looks from my mom. (Laughter) It's the truth. So my grandmother was just everything, that's where I got my sense of humor.

Tavis: She called you Mooney.

Mooney: Yeah, that was her, she named me that. She named everybody, so. She controlled everything and she was very wise and she was very, very funny, and she always taught me that I was better than anybody. That nobody was better than me, no matter what their color was, and don't take anything from anyone.

Tavis: How much of that kind of confidence, to this day even helps you when you're on stage. I ask that because I get the sense from talking to comedians that the one thing you have to have when you get on stage is confidence and no fear. You cannot walk on that stage afraid of anything in the audience.

Mooney: Well an audience is like a pack of wolves. They can sense it, and they smell blood, and they will come for you. They love it. Because an audience actually becomes one person. They decide whether they're going to like you or dislike you, so you have to get in your mind that they are one person and timing's everything. It's everything.

The Apollo audience is the hardest audience in the United States, and I am the only comedian ever to attack an Apollo audience.

Tavis: I was about to ask you -

Mooney: Yeah, I went after them.

Tavis: I want to hear this story, tell me about it, tell me about it.

Mooney: Well, there was a young - there was a White rapper on and the Apollo audience was eating it up. I came on after him and I said, "You guys are so easy. All White people have to do is imitate you and you just love it." (Laughter) Yeah, I did. I said, "You're impressed by it."

And I said, "I'm offended by it," I said, "Because what do you do when you go to the zoo and you go up to the monkey's cage? You don't go up to the monkey's cage and say, 'Hello, Monkey, my name is Paul.' Because you think you're better than the monkey, you go up to the cage and go (monkey noises). You come to the monkey's level." (Laughter) And that's how I look at that. That's why I can't - it really just offends me.

Tavis: And them Negroes in the Apollo did what?

Mooney: Well, they got quiet, because it was the truth. See, I don't have to defend the truth. People will say it's me - "It's you, Paul, it's you." I could drop dead, it doesn't - the truth defends itself.

Tavis: But if you in your own mind are being truthful and you're killing in your own mind but the audience is silent, is that success? The point is to make us laugh.

Mooney: Well, the point is to make you laugh but also, as I told you, an audience is like a monster and I remember when I used to try to please the audience and kiss their butt and do everything, anything, anything - get naked, anything - to make them happy. (Laughter) Anything to get a laugh.

And one time I just - I learned it in Beverly Hills, working every night in Beverly Hills at the (unintelligible) club, I just said you know what? I don't want to feel fear; I don't want to feel like they've done something to me. I said, I want to switch this around. I never want to feel this. If anybody feels bad, it'll be them. It won't be me.

I want to bring my grandmother up again because I think like her and that's why I never did drugs. So during the '80s I really got rich, because (laughter) - no, you think that people are balers now, $100 is worth $25, so they're not really ballers. Back then, $100 was $100, and the drugs, that cocaine was cocaine. It was the best.

We used to ride around in limos, like Redd Foxx and Flip Wilson, Richard, all of them, they would, like, pass the cocaine around and $1,000 or $2,000 bills. That's how they were ballers, and that was worth money. And they'd pass it and when it got to me I'd wipe it off and put it in my pocket. (Laughter)

Tavis: How does one who never did drugs have as his best friend a guy, by your own admission and you talk about it in the book, had drug issues - Pryor. How did you navigate that relationship?

Mooney: No, because it wasn't my problem, it was Richard's problem.

Tavis: He's your best friend, though.

Mooney: Yeah, but Richard - and I knew Richard loved me because Richard never tried to seduce me or tried to suggest for me to - misery loves company - to say, "Come on, try it. You haven't tried it, don't knock it, let's do this together, you don't know how this makes you feel." He never did that. He would tell all the drug dealers, "Paul doesn't do drugs. Give me Paul's share. More for me, more for me." (Laughter) He would say that all the time to everybody - "Paul doesn't do drugs." So that let me know.

Tavis: Is Pryor the best ever?

Mooney: Oh, listen, I think Bill Cosby just got the Mark Twain Storytelling award, and if Mark Twain was the best storyteller, then Richard is Dark Twain. (Laughter)

Tavis: Mark Twain and Dark Twain.

Mooney: Yeah, he's Dark Twain. Yeah, because when Richard - like when he talked about the deer walking in the woods (unintelligible) bone, you felt you were there. You didn't feel like someone was telling you a story, you felt that you were there. He makes things come to life.

Tavis: How do you run your own race? How do you measure yourself when the guy you're running with is the best out there?

Mooney: It's not measuring myself, because I was Richard's biggest fan. If you listen to all the old albums, you'll hear me laughing. Richard did what he did. I don't do what Richard does. I'm not - it's like Richard could play characters and Richard could lose himself totally - he'd be out of it. Eddie Murphy does the same thing. They totally give this - they give themselves away to whatever this thing is. I can't do that.

My ego won't allow me to do that. I can never wholly - and I know this - give me away. If any character I play, from Negrodamus to whatever character I'm playing to Sam Cooke to anybody I'm playing, I can't - it's me, but it's a part of me. It's never - I never can give all of me up. It'll always be - Paul will always be there, you know what I'm saying?

See with Eddie - and Eddie Murphy's underrated. He's brilliant. When he becomes a character, like he's in drag or he's playing an uncle or playing these characters, it becomes almost demonic. It's almost like he's possessed. Richard did the same thing. They become these characters.

I can't do that; I don't know how they do it. I'm very impressed with that. Eddie's brilliant. Eddie probably is - as much as people think oh, Eddie Murphy, oh, Eddie Murphy, he doesn't really get the play he should get.

Tavis: Tell me about the creative decision to literally give two pages to his death in this book. You didn't spend a lot of time on that.

Mooney: Because it hurts. It hurts. It's like - it was real hard for me, and plus he made me promise not to write a book as long as he was alive. I can only write that book because he's passed. He said after he - he said, "When I go, you can write about whatever you want to write about." So it brought all that up again, and that's just part one.

Tavis: And this title, I love it - "Black is the New White."

Mooney: It is. (Laughter) The man in Cleveland proved that.

Tavis: Oh, the guy - the serial killer.

Mooney: The serial killer.

Tavis: How'd he prove that?

Mooney: Well, because I'm sure there's a White man trapped inside of him. Come on, we don't do those kinds of things. (Laughter) That's not our MO. It's just like the snipers - I still think they're wearing blackface. That's why I say Black is the new White, because we're doing crazy stuff that we know that White people love to do.

Tavis: Circling back to the beginning of this conversation, what do you make, then, 40 years after that skit - not 40 years, but yeah, I guess it's close to 40 years.

Mooney: It's close.

Tavis: Yeah, 30-something years after that skit that we have a Black president?

Mooney: Well, see, I don't like - it's great that we have one, but I don't like White people using Obama as a weapon. "Well, you've got a Black president." But they've had White presidents for hundreds of years. I'm not throwing that in their face. (Laughter) No, I'm serious. If they're so liberal, why weren't they bitching about a White president? Why all these White presidents, weren't they saying, "When are we going to have a Black one?"

Because they enjoyed it. It was because White is right and it was okay, and they have the complexion for the protection for the collection, so it was all perfect. (Laughter) And White people have privileges. I want White privilege. There are White men walking around angry that Obama is president. I want to be angry that there's a White president. We never had that privilege. "Another White president? How many White presidents they going to have? Do they all have to be White?" (Laughter)

We have never said that. You watch "CNN" and all the White women, the anchorwomen, they say Mr. President and all the White men, they say, "Obama" and "Mr. Obama." So something is wrong somewhere. They can't even say president; they're going to throw up. "The president (vomit noise)." It's just crazy. (Laughter)

I'm really impressed with Obama and I think Obama is perfect for America. He's perfect.

Tavis: Perfect?

Mooney: Yeah, he's perfect. He got them big White man ears, he looks like Malcolm X, he talks like Martin Luther King, Oprah loves him, so he's perfect. (Laughter)

Tavis: I'm going to stop him right now before it gets hairy up in here. The new book, it's a good one, from Paul Mooney - got to love the title - "Black is the New White." If you didn't know, now you do. Paul Mooney, always glad to see you, man.

Mooney: Pound.

Tavis: Oh, that's right.

Mooney: I taught Obama that>

Tavis: You taught Obama that?

Mooney: Oh, yeah.

Tavis: You did that?

Mooney: In Harlem.

Tavis: Tell me the story right quick, what happened?

Mooney: Well, I was going to work on 125th and he came out of Sylvia's, a soul food restaurant - him and Sharpton and the FBI, CIA, and the Boy Scouts and the National Guard and everybody came out behind him.

And he screamed my name out across the street, he said, "Paul Mooney, all the stars are out tonight." He said, "Come over here," and he went to shake my hand." I said, "Don't give me that White man handshake; give me a pound." He said, "Okay."

Tavis: And that's how it started?

Mooney: That's how it happened, but I'll tell you this for real - he déjà vu'd me. He déjà vu'd me, because I had met Senator Kennedy before he was president at a place in Oakland, California, and he looked like the Marlboro man - the old one, not the new one. (Laughter) And I said to him, I told him, I said, "You're going to be president of the United States." He said, "What makes you think that?" I said, "Because I've never seen Black people like a White man the way they like you."

And he said, "I hope you're right," and I was. But Obama has that same energy. He has that same charisma, that same thing, whatever Kennedy had, that "it" factor, so.

Tavis: It works.

Mooney: Yeah, it works, and I love him and he signed that bill for the thing about racial crimes - hate crimes.

Tavis: Hate crimes, yeah, yeah.

Mooney: Yeah, he signed that. I hope it goes through. Because I said, "Well, I hope he's not being psychic, I hope he's not doing that because if something happens to him, whoever does it, they'll put him under the jail." (Laughter)

Tavis: There's only one Paul Mooney. The new book, again, "Black is the New White."