E-mail a friendDr. Cornel West
airdate October 28, 2008
A renowned scholar, Princeton professor Dr. Cornel West has written/edited more than 20 books, including Race Matters and, his memoir, Brother West. Outside of academia, he's been described as an "intellectual provocateur," with lectures, TV and film appearances and his spoken-word CDs. He provided philosophical commentary on all three Matrix films, and his disc, "Never Forget: A Journey of Revelations," combined hip-hop and intellectual dialogue. West has also taught at Harvard, Yale and Union Theological Seminary.
Princeton professor explains his critique of Sen. Obama and discusses why it is crucial that the Illinois senator be elected. (1:54)
Full interview. (11:53)
Dr. Cornel West
Tavis: I am always pleased and more than honored to welcome Dr. Cornel West to this program. The university professor at Princeton is the author of many notable and bestselling books, including "Race Matters" and of course "Democracy Matters." His latest, though, in stores this week, is called "Hope on a Tightrope: Words and Wisdom." He joins us tonight from Princeton. Dr. West, as always, a honor to have you on the program, sir.
Dr. Cornel West: My dear brother, it is always a blessing to be on the best talk show in the country. I would say the world, but I don't understand all the world's languages, brother.
Tavis: (Laughs) As you can tell, Dr. West is my friend, and in terms of full disclosure, let me say right quick this book is published by Smiley Books. But we're honored to have Dr. West on the program.
Doc, let me start our conversation, before I get to the book, by going back to the last time you were on this program. I shared with you confidentially that the last time you were on at the Democratic convention, the night that Barack Obama accepted the nomination of his party, you were on with another guest on the program, a couple of other guests, and there were parts of - not in its entirety - there were parts of Obama's acceptance speech that you had some issues with. You said so on the program that night, you made it very clear that, "I support Barack Obama, I want him to win, I believe he's going to win, I have campaigned for him, I will continue to campaign for him."
But you went on to make some points about his speech that night that concerned you. I want to now read a passage from your new book, "Hope on a Tightrope," that I think contextualizes that conversation then and what we're going to talk about tonight, and get your thoughts on it. I read now from your book, "Hope on a Tightrope."
"I'd like to see my dear brother Barack Obama in the White House. I think he's the best presidential candidate. At the same time, there are structural constraints on any president. Any politician who makes it to the level of a Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or anybody else tends to be surrounded by spinmeisters and pundits who do not put the suffering of working and poor people at the center of their vision.
"I want Senator Obama to win, but I'm going to criticize him intensely when he wins. I'm a deep Democrat and he's a liberal; they're not the same thing. I very much support him, but it's a question of principle - the plight of everyday people is paramount," close quote.
I read that because again, since that convention I know you've been campaigning vigorously for Barack Obama, but what is it you think about what you attempted to say, critiquing him in love, that some people cannot hear as love, as accountability?
West: I think in part it has to do with our brother for his heart for people to conceive of criticism as a species of love. So when I promised my dear brother Barack Obama that I would do a full-court press for him, to make sure he gets into the White House, put in the 14 events in one day in Columbus and 16 there in Cleveland because Ohio is a pivotal state. I also connected with Florida and Virginia.
That's my effort to say I'm going to do all I can, because he is the best for empowering those Sly Stone called "everyday people of all colors." Working people, poor people - especially poor people - but also middle class folk, as well. At the same time, the criticism follows that same love, because in the end, Barack Obama is not Jesus; he's a cracked vessel.
He is only as strong as we are. He inspires us, we inspire him. He is made by the campaign; the campaign is made, in part, by him. It's mutual. That's the way in which citizens relate to leaders in that regard, and so therefore the critique must be based on principle so that when he does, in fact, win - and I told the world I'm going to break-dance that night - but the next morning, I'm getting up as his critic.
Why? Because it's a matter of principle. He's a means to the end of empowering everyday people. He's a vehicle for the aim of empowering everyday people. I think he understands that. He understands the division of labor between myself, who has a Socratic and prophetic calling, and himself, who has a commitment to liberal governance.
But I want him to have a commitment to very progressive governance. That's why I put the pressure on him, my brother.
Tavis: So you think all your campaigning and that of so many others is going to pay off in a few days from now?
West: I hope and pray, but I would do it no matter what. I'm doing it because it's right, because it's moral, because it's just, relative to Brother John McCain. I have great respect for my brother, but I think he would be catastrophic for this catastrophic moment we have. And I just want to make sure that my dear brother Barack Obama is not too timid in this catastrophic moment.
The empire is wavering; American democracy is wobbling. We have deep decay in our culture and we know we're near economic collapse. There's greed at the top, there's a culture of indifference when it comes to the weak and the most vulnerable, and we've got a politics of fear coming from the right - the scare tactics and of course the scapegoating.
It will not work. This other strategy is over, the right wing reign is over, the age of Reagan is over, conservative hegemony is over. We ought to celebrate. Now we can actually focus on working people, poor people, the masses of people in this nation, and, of course, the world.
Tavis: What about the notion that some have raised, though, that, as you know, power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. And if, in fact, the polls hold up, Democrats will control the reins in the White House, the House, and the Senate. You are, again, a deep Democrat. Does that concern you, that the Democrats will have all the keys in Washington?
West: Well, no, that's fine with me, because in the end they are only reigning the people who rule in a democracy. We have to keep them accountable. The probably has been, in part, during the age of Reagan, the Democratic Party has been too spineless. No backbone, no vision, just a stare, triangulating Republican politics and so forth and so on.
That era is over. We are in a serious crisis. Keep in mind the poor people have been in crisis even when people were denying the crisis. And of course we've got to keep in mind Bush refused to sign a bill for disabled children, $1.8 billion, because he couldn't find the money and said it was socializing medicine.
Now the big banks are in trouble, $700 billion. Socializing financial markets - absolutely. It's the priorities. That's the kind of hypocrisy we've been dealing with, that's the kind of mendacity we've been dealing with. Thank God we think it's a new day, and Brother Barack Obama is a symbol of that.
And we have to just make sure that he follows through on the substance, but the challenge right now is to get that brother in the White House.
Tavis: Back to "Hope on a Tightrope." The book, which I've been asking you to do for years now for this very reason - there are so many subject matters that I thought people could benefit from hearing from you on these subject matters as opposed to a book just about race matters or just about democracy, covering a variety of topics.
Let me throw a few of them at you right quick and just get you to top line what your sense is on these various issues. In no particular order, faith.
West: Yes, oh my God, stepping out on nothing and landing on something, and I must say that I had faith to step forward, because it was both your idea to do this thing, and thank you so very much. And of course, we both applaud the editorial genius of our dear sister Cheryl Woodruff, who came up with the title as well as helped put it together in such a marvelous way.
But faith is really about that fiduciary dimension in the human condition in which we recognize we cannot live on doubt, we don't survive solely on arguments. You have to make a leap of faith and a labor of love in order to get up in the morning and proceed, and proceed in such a way that you have a sense of dignity and decency and try to serve others.
Tavis: Speaking of serving others, there's a whole chapter in the book called "Love and Service."
West: Yeah, I'm calling for a 21st century renaissance of love and service, understanding love itself as a steadfast commitment to the well-being of others and understanding justice is what love looks like in public, just as deep democracy is what justice looks like in practice.
Tavis: You talk in this book in a way that you have not before about family - your family in particular.
West: Yeah, (unintelligible) my family, I had to be silent, though, brother. (Unintelligible) Clinton West, my father, was beyond description; my mother, of course, who was your adopted mother in so many ways - she loves you to death as I love you to death, though, brother. My brother, Cliff, and sisters Cynthia and Cheryl, my son, Cliff, and my daughter, Zatune (sp). That, for me - they are for me the salt of the earth, that I am who I am because they love me, my brother.
Tavis: The front of this book opens up - it's a pretty cool concept. The front of the book opens up with my bookshelf, and so the inside of the book, the entire inside cover, features some of your favorite authors. As a matter of fact, I'm just reading today the new issue of "Newsweek," where you're featured in, talking about some of your favorite authors. You mentioned five in the "Newsweek." You remember what those books were?
West: Well, I began with Plato's dialogues, brother. That, for me, is foundational. Plato himself has unpersuasive conclusions, but his insights are so profound we wrestle with them for the rest of our lives - reality and appearance, knowledge versus opinion, and so on.
At the same time, Chekov for me in some ways is the greatest writer, because he's able to embrace disappointment and the catastrophic and still promote compassion. Toni Morrison, of course, her "Beloved" is a text that I mentioned because she is in so many ways the great American artist of the catastrophic and compassionate. Then I think it's Abraham Joshua Heschel?
Tavis: Yes.
West: With "The Prophets," dealing with the rich legacy of Jerusalem and its prophetic mode from Amos thereafter. And then the last one was - oh, Erasmus, "In Praise of Folly."
Tavis: Exactly, yeah.
West: Yes - the ability to laugh at ourselves and laugh with others, not at others - laugh with others, but laugh at ourselves and still hold on to some love and service. I think it was James Baldwin, "The Fire Next Time," is one that I suggested that people read over and over again, and I think it's Philip Larkin whose poetry has been valorized but never really impressed me - mere wit as opposed to deep humor, my brother.
Tavis: The inside cover on the front, as I mentioned, lays out your bookshelf; properly phrased "my bookshelf." The inside back cover, as we get ready for a conversation with Raphael Saadiq and a performance, the inside back cover is "my music." Who knew that Cornel West loved all of these varying artists?
West: Well, I just thank you and Cheryl for the idea of asking me these questions, but you start with John Coltrane, Steven Sondheim, Beethoven, Mozart, Mary J. Blige, and the dramatics - one can never forget. And I know Brother Saadiq appreciates that as well.
But so many of these musicians who actually sustain my soul and heart and mind in recognizing that music is in no way just a mode of amusement and entertainment; it's an integral part of my way of life, my mode of being in the world, and I think that's true for so many others.
Tavis: My time is just about out. You argue in the book, in fact, that music is deeper than philosophy.
West: Oh, very much so - very much so. Music we need when language fails us but we cannot remain silent and you have to somehow respond with your body in a visceral and in an intellectual way.
Tavis: Finally, in 20 seconds, these are your words. The title of the book, "Hope on a Tightrope," by "Hope on a Tightrope" you mean what?
West: I mean the nation, Brother Barack Obama, you and I, Black folk, to be human. It's to sustain your hope on a slippery tightrope, and try to sustain it by mustering the courage to think critically, mustering the courage to empathize with others, and mustering the courage to sustain your hope.
Tavis: The new book from Cornel West, Princeton professor, is called "Hope on a Tightrope: Words and Wisdom of Cornel West," finally out. Dr. West, thanks for your words and wisdom. As always, glad to have you on the program.
West: Thank you so much. Love you so much, my brother.
Tavis: Love you back. Thanks for coming on.
West: Stay strong, (unintelligible).
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