E-mail a friendVicente Fox
airdate October 17, 2007
Vicente Fox worked his way from ranch hand to the youngest CEO in Coca-Cola's history to president of Mexico. He began his political career with the National Action Party, was elected governor of Guanajuato and ran for president in ‘00. Since leaving office in ‘06, Fox has been involved in public speaking and with the Fox Center, Mexico's first presidential library. He's also written his autobiography, Revolution of Hope. Last month, he was elected co-president of the Centrist Democratic International, an international organization of political parties.
Vicente Fox
Tavis: Tonight, however, I'm honored to welcome President Vicente Fox to this program. His historic election as president of Mexico back in 2000 brought to close a 70-year monopoly in Mexico politics by PRI, the International Revolutionary Party. After serving his six-year term, President Fox has put pen to paper for a compelling story of his upbringing, his family, and the country he dearly loves.
The new book is called "Revolution of Hope: The Life, Faith, and Dreams of a Mexican President." Mr. President, I am honored to have you on the program.
Vicente Fox: Tavis, thank you very much, I'm very pleased to be here, and it's an honor for me.
Tavis: It's an honor for us to have you on the program. I'm going to see how - I've got about a half-hour conversation with you, I'm going to see how long I can go without saying the "I" word. We'll see how long we can go without talking about immigration. I know you've been asked that question by every interviewer in the country.
Fox: Yes, sir.
Tavis: I want to get to that a little bit later, but there's so much other stuff in this book that I really want to get to, starting with what it means - and you've made jokes about this - but what it means for a former Mexican president to even write a memoir. Here in the United States, as you well know, we're used to this. Every president leaves office and starts writing books as fast as he can - maybe she one day - but as fast as he can. This is a rarity in Mexico politics, for a former president to even write a memoir. Why is that?
Fox: Yes, Mexican democracy is very young, very recent, and we still have old, undemocratic cultures going on in the country. For instance, that former presidents have to keep quiet, have to disappear. Or they voluntarily run away or hide away because of corruption acts. So what I'm trying to do is bring in a new culture, a new attitude of a former president, and one of those ways of approaching the thing is by writing a book.
And a book that is very candid, that speaks truly about where I lived and having the honor of governing Mexico as well as a biography, and my relationship with different leaders throughout the world.
Tavis: As I mentioned to you before we came on camera here, I was in Mexico City just a few weeks ago, had a good time there for about a week or so. Here, Stateside, a lot of publicity this book is generating, "Revolution of Hope." How is this memoir, again, which is rather unusual for former Mexican presidents, how's the text, how the book being received, being reviewed, in Mexico?
Fox: Well, not yet in Spanish and not yet on the bookshelves in Mexico. There is going to be a translation into Spanish during the month of November, so it will be distributed then. But right now, it's just some comments on media and doing well, fortunately, here in the States.
And you know the product of this book or any income that it generates for me is a donation I'm going to make to the presidential library that we're building in Mexico for the first time ever. And through the foundation Vamos Mexico, [unintelligible] the poor, [unintelligible] the ill, through my wife, Marta.
Tavis: That raises two other questions. Why - I'm just curious here now - why release this book first - you're the former president of Mexico. Why release the book in English first, Stateside, before in Spanish in your native country?
Fox: Yeah. I'm clearly addressing U.S. public opinion and trying to bring more information of what Mexico is all about, how Mexico is doing, tell them that Mexico's a very modern nation, a very strong, reliable economy, a solid partner of United States, trying to bring in also to the huge debate that is going on in the States now about immigration some information about what immigration is, starting with my grandfather and my grandfather's family, who moved first from Ireland to Strasberg in Germany in two centuries.
Then next they moved to the States, to Cincinnati, Ohio, and that's where my grandfather was born. And he decides to go and migrate into Mexico without a penny in his pocket, looking for his American dream. So it's a story that brings in a lot of [unintelligible] to the issue of immigration, which is much more than just illegality or undocumented or whatever the debate is going on. Immigration is an asset to all nations, and immigration - immigrants are very special kind of persons.
Tavis: You mention that you're donating all the proceeds from the book to a presidential library, here again something that may interest the American viewer. In our country, every president, every former president has a presidential library. Not so in Mexico, you're the first one to have a presidential library?
Fox: First one ever.
Tavis: Wow.
Fox: And this is [unintelligible] precisely on the libraries here. And I learned that there is life after the presidency, that you can still keep yourself active, that you can still contribute to your community, to your citizens, and that you can keep yourself busy, because otherwise, just retiring to the farm, you begin to die. So I learned from my grandfather, you keep on the move, you keep going after your dreams, you keep meeting challenges, and I love to do that.
Tavis: I think a lot of viewers are shocked, perhaps, to learn that you are, in a different sort of way, the grandson of immigrants. Your grandfather, to your earlier point, lived in Ohio and left Cincinnati to pursue his dream in Mexico.
Fox: 1895. Imagine going all the way down from Cincinnati, Ohio, down to Mexico on a horse, train, horse carriages sometimes. But he made it, and he didn't have money. He just was working on the road and finally, he decided to settle in [unintelligible]. And the most surprising thing is that he works as a night watchman, he works very hard for 10 years, he saves some money, and with that, he buys a farm, 100,000 silver pesos, a farm right there in [unintelligible] -
Tavis: How big is -
Fox: - in the middle of the revolution.
Tavis: How big is the farm?
Fox: It was 10,000 acres. Today it's 1,000 acres because government, through this agrarian reform, takes away land from him and gives it to the peasant, to the campesinos, to the [unintelligible]. He never understood that, and believe me, he being an American, not speaking one word of Spanish, he died in 1946 and he just never comprehended why the fruit of his work, his hard work, was taken away.
Tavis: Do you understand that? Why it is that your grandfather started with 10,000 acres and the government took 9,000 away?
Fox: Well, the idea was forcing distribution of income. Forcing the rich to move part of his net worth to the poor. But for instance, Homestead Act here, which was historical, made and attained the same objective. But here, the difference was that you would own your land, your piece of land. And so you would give your life for that piece of land.
In Mexico, no, it was different. That land was lended only to the [unintelligible], but the government kept. So he became the great [unintelligible], controlling the lives and the fate of all these millions of [unintelligible], forcing them to vote for the [unintelligible] in elections, forcing them to belong to that union, forcing them to work for the government, really, is what happened. So that's the difference between ownership property or being subject to a dictator government.
Tavis: To your childhood now, so you are your grandfather's grandson, your grandfather's offspring, and you end up at one point in your life being educated here in the States.
Fox: Yes, sir, and this is what my father desire was, to send us back here to learn English, first of all, but second to learn about the culture, to visit our grandfather's and our family's home in Cincinnati, and learn the culture. And yes, we were at Campion Jesuit High School in Wisconsin, I had to pick up empty bottles of Coca-Cola and get a nickel so that I could sustain my expenses of being there, buy my Milky Way with that cold weather that you have.
Tavis: I was about to ask. I love Green Bay, but how did you end up in Wisconsin?
Fox: I always went to Jesuit schools in Mexico.
Tavis: Jesuit school, okay.
Fox: So this was a Jesuit school, and you get a lot of learning of values in Jesuit school, about the [unintelligible], the Loyola, the saint. He teaches you, he praises the idea of you only [unintelligible] your own happiness by being for others. By working for your community and working for others, and that's what moved me into politics, because I always worked for business, for Coca-Cola, for family business.
Tavis: So you said that you learned in Jesuit school that life is really about giving your life to others. You end up going back to your reunion, your 20-year reunion, you go back, you start out at Wisconsin, to your point now, selling Coca-Cola bottles, or turning them in for a nickel. Fast forward, really fast here, you end up later, as an adult, as the president of Coca-Cola Mexico. Worked your way all the way up to the top of the company.
You're president of Coca-Cola in Mexico. You go back to your 20-year reunion, and one of the priests, one of the fathers, really says to you and your classmates, as he hears you guys talking about your economic and business success, he says to you and your classmates, "I have failed you all. I have failed you guys, and I've failed you because I thought I taught you that life is really about giving what you have to others."
And that struck you. Tell me about that story, and what you ultimately did when the father, when the Jesuit priest says this to you.
Fox: Absolutely. Padre Scheffler (sp). He exactly did what you just mentioned, and I was shocked. We were at the most luxurious restaurant club in Mexico, the University Club, all of us with our wives, our wives with their big rings, diamonds, (laughter) all of us with jackets, black ties, and enjoying that party. And here comes Padre Scheffler, and he gives us this very, very strong message and he says, "I feel totally disappointed."
He left the microphone and he went away, because Jesuits used to educate for kings and for government and leaders in the idea of St. Ignacio de Loyola that through educating leaders with a very strong commitment with people, they would do so. But here comes Padre Scheffler and says, "Yes, I educated you to become leaders, and now that you're leaders, you're not working for people, you're working for yourselves." And that shook me really, really, and that changed my life. Absolutely changed it.
Tavis: What did you do after you leave the party?
Fox: Well, I was working in Coca-Cola, and what happened then is that I felt empty within myself because of that message of Padre Scheffler. So I decided to resign Coca-Cola when they offered me the post of becoming the presidency over all of Latin America, and moved to Atlanta. So I just didn't want to do that. I wanted to really be able to be close to people and work for people.
So I went back to the ranch, where I had played marbles with poor kids, [unintelligible] the campesinos, and trying to fill my spirit, trying to nourish this flame I had on the interior. And so I went for 15 years to family business after 15 years in Coca-Cola, and after 15 years of education. And then I came into politics, again searching for the same, trying to encounter myself with a more happy life.
And then spent 15 years in politics. And when my mother was about to - I was about to finish the presidency of Mexico, which was a great honor for me and I came back to the ranch, she said, "Well, Vicente, you've been four stages in your life. What is next now that you're going to finish as president?" And I said, "I'm going to become a priest." (Laughter.)
And she said, "No, Marta won't let you do that." I was happily now married to Marta, which I'm very much in love, and that's one of the great things that has happened in my life.
Tavis: When you read the book, you get the sense that you felt a certain sense of disappointment that you could not do in six years - again, 70 years of this ruling party, PRI, you come in with your party plan and you upend politics in Mexico. It's a huge story around the world. But I still get the sense that you felt a little disappointed after six years that you hadn't done what you wanted to do.
Fox: Well, development is a long-term issue. Look at this land of California. Look at those pioneers that came from the east and came from the north to this land. It took years and years and years to developments. There is this great, great state of California, seventh largest economy in the world, even larger than Mexico as a whole, the economy in California.
So development's a long-term issue, and you just try to make your best effort. I dedicated every second, every minute, every day, every week, every month of those six years in trying to serve Mexico and serve Mexicans. I am happy with myself, I feel very well in my spirit. But Mexicans will have to judge how far we could go. But Mexico's on the path, on the right path, and with Felipe Calderon now keeping the leadership, he will be the best president that Mexico has had.
Young guy, 43-year-old, very well prepared, Harvard graduate, very experienced in politics. His family has been in politics in Mexico two generations or three generations. And he will lead Mexico to development.
Tavis: There was a big - obviously we recall reading about the big split, the big chasm between the Obrador camp and the Calderon camp. How is that playing out these days, has it toned down a little bit?
Fox: Yes, yes, very much so. Very tight election, 250,000 votes difference. Less than half a percent difference between Felipe Calderon and Lopez Obrador. He just didn't want to accept, Lopez Obrador, his defeat, so he started attacking the institutions, attacking the electoral authorities and everything, but today, fortunately Felipe has taken the [unintelligible], the reins of the country and moving along, and things are now very stable today, but still, the challenges are there.
Mexico has a long way to go yet on education, on housing, on defeating poverty, in bringing opportunities to our people in Mexico. We don't like to see our people coming up here. We don't like to see our people moving from the rural areas to the big cities. Everybody should be, if possible, with their family, with their land. But still you have this spirit, this flame that immigrants have inside. They're a very special caste of people, so they move, move, looking for better opportunities, looking to upgrade themselves, and looking for accomplishing their American dream.
Tavis: I'm not sure there's a question here, because I'm not sure I could ask a question that you have not been asked already on this book tour about immigration. Let me just put it to you this way. When the word immigration comes up Stateside, here, you want to say what about it?
Fox: Solution. This nation needs immigrants to keep it going, to keep its economy going. And this nation is to address the issue and bring up a framework so that we avoid conflict, so we avoid the xenophobics being very aggressive with the issue, so that we avoid fear guiding the decision-making process.
And so that we avoid even local authorities that are becoming very aggressive and very violent against my people. It's my people, those paisanos are my heroes, I admire them. Now, I am for legality, I am for order, I am for a solution so that we make out of immigration a win-win situation.
Tavis: What is the solution?
Fox: The solution is there in Congress. The proposal is there, the bill is there. Number one, those who have a job here and been here for years and years, contributing to this economy, being hired by somebody, being paid by somebody, they should be recognized as such, as workers or employees, working for somebody, and their rights being respected. And they can move back and forth.
Number two, this economy needs, and this is fact, not mine, 400,000 to 500,000 new workers that U.S. [unintelligible] do not provide. So that's additional than those who are fulfilled by local nationals. It's needed to keep this economy running. So let's plan this guest worker's program, through which they will come, work, and go back, as is being done in Canada.
They bring them up plane, they shelter them while they're working for six months, for nine months, then they go back home. Next year if they need them, they call them back again. They bring the plane, bring them in. So that's what a guest program worker is. Most of our people is not interested in staying here as your citizen or become just national. They just want to upgrade themselves, earn more money, and go back home to their families.
Tavis: What about the argument that I'm sure you've heard a thousand times, that if these workers were not being maltreated, disrespected, exploited - pick a word - inside of Mexico, they wouldn't be running across the border?
Fox: It's two things. Some of them, yes, they're hungry, they don't have a job, and they'll just move anywhere looking to feed their families. But they're the least. Most of them are people that just want to come here because here, an average worker will do six times more income than what the average worker does in Mexico.
So instead of earning $1, as an example, you're going to make $6. That's sufficiently attractive to cross deserts, to cross mountains, to come and look for that American dream here. It's not only Mexican immigration; Central Americans, Latin Americans, it's Asians, it's Indians, it's Afro-Americans today, and it's - this land has been constructed, this great nation has been constructed by immigrants.
And I love this land, I love United States, I feel part of it because I've been here long enough, and that's why I'm bringing in this message, which by the way I understand that Barack Obama might be here. And let me tell you, he's -
Tavis: Tomorrow night.
Fox: He's somebody to admire. He's a great maverick, moving ahead with - he has an inner power, very special. In the book I say he recalls me of Bobby Kennedy, the type. But I have a difference with him on this case of outsourcing and the Maytag story of this corporation, because Maytag would have closed its doors anyway.
They moved it down to Mexico - by the way, they moved down to my home state in Mexico. So Maytag survived now, and Maytag is doing well because it's competitive, now they are exporting the products all over to the world, and otherwise, they have lost the jobs here, and never those jobs created in Mexico. Today, we have jobs in Mexico, and Maytag keeps working here, distributing service and everything. It has kept most of the jobs they had.
Tavis: I'm almost out of time here, and I had forgotten about this until you said it, and I want to give you a chance to respond, now that you're here in person. Until you said Afro-Americans, to use your word, until you said Barack Obama, I had forgotten about this controversy that erupted. I see you smiling, so you know where I'm going with this.
The controversy that erupted, and now I've forgotten what the comment was, exactly, but you said something about African Americans that offended a number of Black leaders, and you were in trouble.
Fox: Well, what I said, and I don't like to really, because I apologized for it. But it was - the concept I still think that [unintelligible] I was trying to convey the message. But I was saying, in defending Mexicans, that they were willing to accept jobs that even Afro-Americans would not take. I didn't want to harm anybody; I apologized for it.
Tavis: I remember.
Fox: And I apologize again. It's not my intention to offend. It's always trying to explain this phenomena, very complex phenomena of immigration.
Tavis: "Revolution of Hope." I could have started the conversation here; I want to end, though, with why you chose that title, and what you mean by "Revolution of Hope."
Fox: Well, it's dreaming, it's building hope, bringing hope to my paisanos here, to my people in Mexico, to people in Latin America, but also hope for this nation that I love so much to come back to its leadership, worldwide. To come back to being the champion of openness, the champion of trading, because I don't understand this nation building walls.
It just doesn't work in my mind. That means isolating, and that means fear. And walls don't work. And isolation doesn't work. And the real threat is not immigration; the real threat is isolating yourself. And we want to see that United States back, that worldwide leader, the one who moved the open markets and moved economies and brought people to be middle classes, not only here but everywhere else. That United States, I want to see again, that leadership throughout the world, and maybe this election will bring us those leaders, I hope.
Tavis: The book is "Revolution of Hope: The Life, Faith, and Dreams of a Mexican President." I couldn't help but kind of chuckle on the inside, sitting here for the full half hour, talking to President Fox, that maybe one day, my president will sit for a half an hour and be questioned. Maybe when he's a former president, writing his memoir. We will see. But your friend George Bush to come see us sometime for half-an-hour. But I'm glad you came. Glad to have you here.
Fox: Gracias, senior, mucho gracias. Mucho gracias.
Tavis: Glad to have you.
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