E-mail a friendDr. Deepak Chopra
airdate October 12, 2007
Time magazine credited Deepak Chopra as "the poet-prophet of alternative medicine." After building a successful endocrinology practice in Boston in the ‘80's, he went on to become Chairman and co-founder of the Chopra Center for Wellbeing. Dr. Chopra is the author of over 100 audio, video and CD-ROM titles and more than 50 books. His latest is Buddha: A Story of Enlightenment. He also recently partnered with the conscious-consumer Web community, Care2, to help mobilize action around specific causes.
Dr. Deepak Chopra
Tavis: I'm pleased to welcome Deepak Chopra back to this program. The world-renowned pioneer of alternative medicine is the best-selling author of more than fifty books which have sold more than twenty million copies worldwide. His latest is called "Buddha: A Story of Enlightenment" which is once again The New York Times bestseller. But he's also out with two DVDs based on previous bestsellers. They are "How to Know God" and "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success." Dr. Chopra, nice to have you back on the program.
Deepak Chopra: Thank you.
Tavis: You doing okay, my friend?
Chopra: Yeah.
Tavis: These DVDs I want to really spend our time talking about are based on previous bestsellers.
Chopra: Yes.
Tavis: Let me start with "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success." What's happening in the world now that made you think that something you had done in 1994 or 1996 was worth bringing out as a DVD today? What's happening in the universe that required this?
Chopra: Well, I think you've probably heard of the phenomenon called the law of attraction. People are beginning to realize that our sense of self, our spirit, determines everything in life. It determines how you see the world, perceive the world, think, our intuition, our creativity, our vision, our sense of the sacred, is what determines our life out there.
So there's been a renewed interest in the seven spiritual laws of success worldwide. At the same time, people are asking, “How does this work?” A lot of people don't read books. You know, we had Olivia Newton John as a partner in this endeavor because she attributes actually the cure of a cancer to employing some of these principles.
Tavis: Tell me how one goes about defining, formulating, creating a proper sense of self. What is that?
Chopra: Your sense of self has to be beyond your personal ego. It has to be a more expanded sense of who you are. That's defined by what are your unique talents? Who are your heroes and heroines in history and mythology? What are your peak experiences? What's your purpose in life? What is the contribution you want to make to the world?
What creates joy for you? What is your sense of relationships? What are the basic things you look for in a relationship? What is it that you bring to a relationship? When you ask yourself these questions, you see the meanings and context in relationships and also the archetypal themes of a culture that drive your soul.
Tavis: I think this particular DVD begs asking that ever amorphous question of what success really is.
Chopra: Well, success is the progressive realization, but it's also the ability to love and have compassion. It's the ability to trust your intuition, to find the creative source within you, to envision, to look outside that vision into reality and to have a sense of mystery.
Tavis: Is each of us then capable of finding success?
Chopra: Yes, because success is an expression of our souls. You don't even have to pursue success. You pursue excellence and success is a byproduct.
Tavis: I was in a conversation the other day about the distinction between success and greatness. The distinction was being made that too many of us are chasing the wrong thing which is success, worldly goods, rather than the notion of greatness which is to love and serve other people. I guess the question is, is success really the goal or is greatness what we ought to be after?
Chopra: Greatness is what we ought to be after and success is the byproduct. But human beings have needs and some of them are material needs as well. If you look at Abraham Maslow, you start with survival and safety, then you want material abundance, then you want fame and fortune, then you want love and belongingness, then you want self-esteem, then you want higher guidance, then you want creativity, vision and ultimately you want to connect with that which is sacred.
Tavis: Your fine work notwithstanding, if we live in a world where what we are told to chase is success, but you're telling me that success is a byproduct of greatness, how do we ever get to the real success if we're living in a world we're telling people that that's a byproduct and not the real thing we ought to be chasing?
Chopra: Well, I think we have to shift it. We have to learn this and then we have to be the change we want to see in the world. Right now the world is a mess, you know, with fifty percent of the world living on less than two dollars a day, war and terrorism, global warming, eco-destruction, social injustice.
It's because we all have a very constricted idea of who we are. We are a soul, a spirit and, when we get to that level, we see that we are connected with all that exists, that we have infinite possibilities inside us, that we have infinite creativity, that we have love, we have compassion. Actually, the best way to be successful, even if that's your goal, is to help other people be successful.
Tavis: I was about to ask you what the starting point is on this journey of discovering these seven spiritual laws. Is that the starting point?
Chopra: The starting point is that you're not alone. If you want to be really successful, you have to really develop relations groups. These days, it's called networking. It's such an incorrect term. It's more about meaningful relationships. It's more about connecting in a deeper level. As I said, if you want to make money, help somebody else make money. If you want love, give love. If you want respect, give respect.
It's so simple actually. The seven laws goes into, you know, what's the mechanics of how our consciousness, which is our spirit, becomes our mind and on to our wishes, our relationships, our social interactions, our environment. These are all byproducts of who we are.
Tavis: I don't want to get to all the details. I don't have time. I want to get to the DVD about "How to Know God" in just a second. We've talked conceptually about "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success." Pick one or two of them, if you will, and just give me a little bit more.
Chopra: Well, one of the laws is the Law of Karma which says that, you know, every choice you make has consequences. You step back and witness your choices and ask yourself, you know, is this choice going to make me happy or is it going to affect everybody else and is it going to make them happy as well? If your answer is yes in your heart, then go for it. If your answer is no, stop.
Another of the laws is the Law of Intention. If you have clarity of intention, feel gratitude, take the intention to a deep level of silence, release it and let the universe handle the details.
Tavis: By my count, three or four times now you are suggesting in one form or another to get the ego out of the way. It's a small word, three letters, E-G-O.
Chopra: E-G-O, Edging God Out.
Tavis: (Laughter) I like that. Edging God Out. A whole lot easier said than done, though, to decrease the ego, to get it out of the way. You say it with such ease, but it's not so easy to do.
Chopra: I tell friends to just put your attention in your heart and think of all the things you're grateful for. If you just do that, you can't have ego and gratitude at the same time. When you're ego acts up, feel the sensation to your body and it's not very good. You know what Nelson Mandela said? He said, "Having resentments which is an act of the ego is like drinking poison and thinking to kill your enemies."
Tavis: Um, Mandela. The other DVD, "How to Know God." I want to start with a basic question. What do you mean by "know God"? I'm not sure we're on the same page about this.
Chopra: Who is God? What is God? You know, everybody has had this discussion. I believe that God is our highest instincts to reality. God is an infinite consciousness. God is infinite creativity, infinite intelligence, infinite love, infinite compassion. God is the source of energy, information and matter and God is much bigger than we have actually in tradition envisioned, confined to a particular background, squeezed into the volume of a body and the span of a lifetime.
But, you know, we live in a speck of dust, a planet that is one speck of dust in a galaxy somewhere in the junkyard of infinity. We have been squeezing God, as I said, into the volume of a body and looking at God as somebody who's like us, like human beings. God is access when we access our intuition, creativity, love, compassion, and we go beyond our sums and see that God is infinite consciousness from which everything comes.
The world is conceived, garbled, constructed and comes into existence and, because our souls are part of that infinite consciousness, one way to access that is to go deep within us because the consciousness which is the background of our thoughts is also the same consciousness which is the background of all the intelligent activity of the universe. We're like drops in the ocean and the ocean is also expressing itself through us.
Tavis: If I happen to be agnostic or atheist, what's the value for me in watching this particular DVD, "How to Know God"?
Chopra: This particular DVD will give you an insight to what modern physics say about what you call consciousness. Is consciousness a product of our brains or is consciousness localizing through our brains? How does consciousness give us the experience and thoughts, feelings, emotions? What is consciousness?
I think even if you're agnostic or atheist, you want to know where does love come from? Where does compassion come from? Where does creativity come from? Where does intuition come from? Where does vision come from? Imagination? Intention? Insight? These are human attributes and no other species has these attributes.
Tavis: In a world that's becoming, and certainly a country that's becoming more nativist and more fearful, do you think we're open to this kind of conversation?
Chopra: I think the only future we have is if we embrace a secular spirituality that goes beyond racism, hatred, prejudice, a kind of spirituality that is consistent with cosmology, with what we know about evolution and what we know about the nature through physics, chemistry, mathematics and science.
Tavis: You mention evolution. How does that revolution get led? We live in a world where people are becoming turned off certainly to organized religion in a lot of ways for a lot of reasons, legitimately I think. How does that revolution get led?
Chopra: I think we have to start to ask ourselves can we continue to believe in primitive ideas? You know, all our ideas about God happen to be rather primitive and are based on tribal views. They go back to ancient times and try to embrace a new spirituality. It has to be reasonable. It has to be rational.
It has to be consistent with what we know about the world through the window of science. There should not be any conflict between science and spirituality because what is science? Science is trying to understand the laws of nature and when we say the laws of nature, in my view, the laws of nature are the mind of God.
Tavis: Dr. Deepak Chopra, out with two new DVDs; one "The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success" and the second, "How to Know God," both based on his previous best-selling works, but now DVDs take it to a whole different level. Dr. Chopra, always nice to see you. Glad to have you here.
Chopra: Thank you.
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