E-mail a friendDave Winfield
airdate April 2, 2007
In his 22-year baseball career, Hall of Famer Dave Winfield was selected 12 times as an All-Star. He also has the distinction of being drafted in three different pro sports. Known for helping underprivileged children, he was one of the first baseball stars to include charitable work in his contract, and his foundation was the first organization of its kind created by an athlete. Now a baseball exec, he's written Dropping the Ball, an analysis of what can be done to save America's national pastime.
Dave Winfield
Tavis: Dave Winfield spent over 20 years as a star in the major leagues before being inducted into the baseball Hall of Fame back in 2001. But his work off the field has always been central to his life. Back in February, in fact, he traveled to Ghana as a goodwill ambassador promoting baseball in Africa, at one point on that trip joining former President Jimmy Carter to talk about health issues on the continent.
Dave Winfield has a new book looking at some of the problems facing the game he loves so much, called "Dropping the Ball: Baseball's Troubles and How We Can and Must Solve Them." An honor to have on this program, Hall of Famer Dave Winfield. Hey, big Dave.
Dave Winfield: Tavis, always good to see you.
Tavis: You all right, man?
Winfield: Oh, beautiful.
Tavis: Nice to see you. There's a lot of stuff in this book that's really impressive, but can I be honest? The most impressive part for me was turning to the back and seeing those kind words written by a guy named George Steinbrenner III. How did you make that happen?
Winfield: (Laughter) Well, I tell people in the book that if he and I can get along - and we do now, after many years of discord. It wasn't great back then. But times are good, and he liked what I was writing, and he put the pen to paper and I appreciate those words. Other folks like Hank Aaron, Magic Johnson, a lot of people who know me and know my passion for this game, they wanted to lend their support, as well.
Tavis: Speaking of those who know you and your passion for the game, for those who do, in fact, know you, know your passion for the game, or who have just followed your love and passion for the game, one other question on Steinbrenner, they know, of course, the volatile relationship that existed when you played for the Yankees and a guy named Steinbrenner.
He's back in the news of late because we don't know how this franchise is gonna be run a few years down the road, given the pending divorce, we hear, between his daughter and his son-in-law. So he's back in the news of late, to say nothing of the fact that this is the start of the season. Tell me, though, quickly, how you navigated - 'cause I'm fascinated by this - how you navigated that relationship to the place where Steinbrenner would say these wonderful words about you.
Because I think there - to your point, there's something instructive and informative there about how you repair, how you build bridges in relationships that people think are -
Winfield: Wow. That's almost an entire show in itself. There were about 40 different points of things that I called upon for strength in my own life when I was going through difficulties, ranging from having a spiritual base and having good people around me, then having my own plan and then preparing for each season almost like a boxer would.
You had to prepare. You have your offense, which is all the good stuff that you put out in the world. You had to have your defense, because you knew it was coming. Something that wasn't good. And you had to have your counter-punches, because you can't always fight back. You have to wait till the right time, because if you cry wolf too many times, it's all gonna take - just take what's coming to you.
If someone's an owner, you're a player; they're in the position of authority. So I had a lot of good people around me, and I always knew that I represented something good out there. I had my foundation giving back to the community. And being a parent and a lot of other things, I said, "I'm doing the right thing, so I'm standing up for myself."
And had I been weak and not had good people around me - there are people who turn to drugs and turn to violence something crazy, but I didn't have that going on.
Tavis: What's the most difficult thing about playing on the stage in New York City? Baseball is a wonderful sport; I loved playing as a kid, still love it today. But there is nothing, we are told, like playing on that stage in New York City, especially as a Yankee. What's the most difficult thing about making that happen?
Winfield: There are some people who are made to play on a big stage or under pressure. There are some people that every time their name was announced, (laughter) that bead would - sweat would come out and they just didn't like it at all. But I enjoyed the intensity. I'm gonna tell you, it ratchets up quite a few notches coming from a team that doesn't win too much.
San Diego didn't win a lot when I - and back in those days. But man I went there, and all of a sudden you have the TV, the media, and people expect quite a bit from you, from the beginning of the game to the end of the game, every day. You gotta be ready for it.
Tavis: I cheated. When I got the book, I knew that you had this plan to bring baseball back called Baseball United. And so I cheated and went right to the back of the book and started reading that first, then had to go back to the front of the book. But I got to the back of the book, though, to start reading what you think is wrong with baseball and how to fix it, it's pretty substantial. There's a lot wrong. If you just looked at what you have offered as solutions, it suggests that there are a lot of problems that baseball has right about now.
Winfield: Yeah, there are, but first of all, understand baseball's on good, sound footing in terms of revenue. Everybody's happy, they're smiling. Collective bargaining. They didn't start (laughing) lobbing grenades at one another. They said, "We could split this up. Let's do that." But there are other things that concern us, when you always read about steroids and performance-enhancing drugs, and what happened in Washington.
You think of Pete Rose and how this is getting out of hand, his recent revelations. And for years of collective bargaining, both sides didn't get along. And essentially, that's on one end. And the other end, the entry level into baseball, our society has evolved. Kids no longer go outside and play five, six hours a day without parental supervision, have creativity, spontaneous - "Hey, let's play wiffleball; let's play stickball." They don't do that anymore.
And so kids lose out about 50 percent of their preparation and the love for the game. Parents put them in a uniform in Little League, and although they cheer for them and say, "Come on, Johnny, let's do well," and then they look and, "How come Johnny can't play?" (Laughter) Johnny didn't get out from behind that PlayStation or get outside.
So they don't have the skills for the game. So we're losing those things, and there's a myriad of things in between that I comment on. And I have to say this, Tavis, it's like you can play Little League till you're 12, and that's very, very organized. And then there's a disconnect. There's no organized baseball next level, next component where a kid goes to.
And so it kind of becomes a separate but unequal proposition for the kids that don't have money, and it's not available, you don't play many games. And the kids that pay to play - travel teams and those kind of leagues. So, that's where baseball kind of loses its cache.
Tavis: Let me throw some of these problems at you, 'cause you spend, again, a good part of the book talking about how we fix the problems that baseball has. In no particular order, let me throw some at you; some you've mentioned already. The steroid issue, to your point, just doesn't seem to go away. What do we do about the issue of enhancement drugs in sports, and what - let me adjust that question.
What do we do about it, number one, and did baseball wait too long to start to address that problem? Are they behind the eight-ball on this in a way that they can't recover from?
Winfield: Well, no, they can recover, definitely. But there was a serious issue going on; they finally addressed it. It probably happened sooner than it would have happened because of collective bargaining. What's the give-and-take if I accept this? And went in front of Congress and stuff, and boom, they said, "You better have a strict policy in place."
Now there is a very strict one. Anyone that fools around with drugs in the sport is gonna be hurting. Some people would take the risk, they say, "Look, let me take something, have a good year, get 30, 40 million, I'm set, and I don't care what you (unintelligible) say about me." And others would say, "I wouldn't do it in the first place."
But a serious policy is in place. They did, perhaps, wait too long. It's kind of like you do something in the dark, and you know it's bad if when it's revealed you're embarrassed about it, whether your family or your friends or whatever. So you know it's wrong. It doesn't have to - it was illegal in the United States, not just baseball. And that's why you know it was wrong.
Tavis: I don't know this - in all my research, I don't know that I came across this. Have you commented publicly on the Bonds Aaron chase, and whether or not you have thoughts about what should happen, what will happen, how Barry will be viewed, etcetera, etcetera, chasing this?
Winfield: No, I really haven't, and I really won't 'cause while I'm doing this book - and it's very positive about what people can do - it'll take us off in a whole different direction and that's what people would focus on. It's unfortunate; I know them both very well. And I know that this is a different era, when it will always be suspect and questioned whether it was done under the correct circumstances or not. I know baseball's torn what they're going do, television is torn what they're going to do, the fans are, as well.
Tavis: The Giants aren't. They signed him. (Laughs)
Winfield: Break that record here.
Tavis: Exactly. (Laughter) The Giants are very clear. If you're gonna break it, break it in San Francisco, yeah.
Winfield: Yeah, yeah. But essentially, going back to the initial question you were saying, it's gonna take a different relationship between major league baseball and the players and the players' association - one that they've never really had before. It's gradually coming towards the center, where they were truly polarized, even when I finished playing. And they have to work together to promote the game and work together to change the perception and the reality of baseball.
Tavis: You talk more specifically in the book about the fact that Black players - the league used to be, back when you played, 28 percent Black?
Winfield: Right, right.
Tavis: It's now eight percent Black. Twenty-eight back in the day, eight percent now. No signs it's gonna come up anytime soon. What do we do about the lack of Dave Winfields and Joe Morgans and the list goes on and on?
Winfield: Complex issue. We're looking at it late in the curve. I have one chapter called "The Last Black Major-Leaguer," and really, if we don't take any action - and it's going to take a multi-year, multilayered, multi-organizational plan to really handle this and deal with it, because not one person or organization can solve it. It's difficult because again, society has changed, the people with money don't get a chance to play the game as much as others.
But what I'm concerned about, the passion and the participation in the game - I was there not only when we had a high level of participation, but when we didn't make any money when we started. Now, I was part of collective bargaining, the players do better than any other professional sport. You hear me? Better. And you may not get all the praise and glory and the covers of the magazines or the young girls following you, or the - that kind of stuff...
Tavis: Hey, Jeeter does not have a problem, trust me.
Winfield: No, well, there's a lot of (unintelligible). (Laughter) But I tell you what, in terms of longevity, health, benefits - you know how the girls say, "Give me (unintelligible) with benefits, girl." No, truly, those things are better in baseball than the other sports. So don't give it up. I was there bargaining for them. I hope we continue to participate.
Tavis: Did you have all this figured out when you were being recruited to play? You could have played three different sports. You were recruited in three sports; you chose baseball. I can't imagine - and you're a bright guy - maybe you had all that figured out when you chose baseball back in the day. Why baseball?
Winfield: No, it's changed. It's evolved. But when I grew up, baseball was number one in the country. I'd say boxing was probably number two. People say, "What? Boxing?" But listen, they didn't care about the NBA, they didn't care about (unintelligible) and Russell winning 10 championships, or they didn't say, "I wanna be an NBA player."
They didn't - who skateboarded 30 years ago? X-games, extreme sports, that's new on the scene. Soccer was foreign. So now there's competition for mind share and pocketbook share. Baseball has to be creative in terms of the way it addresses the public. Can't stand on what it used to be or what it was, even though they're making money and we're breaking turnstile records, attendance records.
But when you go in the last 10 years, you have to be concerned when 10 years ago, 11 percent of the fans attending games were African American, you're down to five or six percent. You say, "What happened?" You really have to address it. Find out what the systemic problem is, and think of some answers. I offer some here, and throughout the book it's a solutions-oriented book.
I spent a lot of time on it, and it's - sometimes when books come out they're behind the curve? This is in front of it, I know it is. I'm just talking about what people have been looking at. I'm a vice president and senior advisor for the Padres, I see how they do business, I see how the industry does business. I've done television, radio, newsprint. This is the fifth book.
So I know what people want. I know what they're asking for. And hopefully, I'm suggesting some things and people will work in a concerted effort to change around the participation and the love of the game.
Tavis: All right, so to your point, then, what do you expect from baseball this season?
Winfield: Well, I expect the Padres to win the (unintelligible). (Laughter) It's the only one's gonna give me a ring when we win (laughs).
Tavis: You said the right thing (laughs). I said, "He better have a good Padres answer" when I ask what he expects this season. The new book from Dave Winfield is called "Dropping the Ball: Baseball's Troubles and How We Can and Must Solve Them." If anybody knows, Hall of Famer Dave Winfield ought to. Dave, always good to see you, man.
Winfield: Pleasure.
Tavis: Glad to have you on.
Winfield: Thanks, Tavis.
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