E-mail a friendGov. Bill Richardson
airdate July 26, 2006
New Mexico's Gov. Bill Richardson has impressive political credentials. He served as U.N. ambassador, Energy Secretary in the Clinton administration, seven terms in Congress and, in '04, the first Hispanic chairman of a national Democratic Convention. He's also a four-time Nobel Peace Prize nominee. Richardson was elected governor in '02 by the largest margin of any candidate since '64 and, in the past two general elections, was rumored to be on the short list of VP picks by both Gore and Kerry.
Gov. Bill Richardson
Tavis: Pleased to welcome Governor Bill Richardson back to this program. The New Mexico Democrat is the chairman of the Democratic Governors' Association and the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. He joins us tonight from Santa Fe. Governor, nice to have you back on the program again, sir.
Gov. Bill Richardson: Nice to be with you, Tavis, always.
Tavis: Let me throw a few things at you in the time that we have. Let me start with the news of the day. Of course, Secretary Rice is in the Middle East, meeting in Rome today. Not much really came out of the meeting, but let me start with your assessment of her travel to the region.
Richardson: Well, mixed. First, I believe she should have been there a long time ago. I felt the United States should have a permanent envoy to guide this turmoil and find ways to make things better. Having said that, it's good that she went to the region. It's important what she did in Lebanon; tell the Lebanese we're behind them. But try to tell them also, in a positive way, that having Hizbullah is not gonna work.
The concern I have now is with the international peacekeeping force. There was a commitment by the various parties in the Rome meeting to engage a multinational peacekeeping force. That is essential. The issue is, who's gonna be part of it, and when is it gonna start? That wasn't decided, so that's troubling. And now she heads off to Asia.
Maybe she's back on the weekend. But that reinforces the view that the United States, Republican and Democratic Presidents, have always had a permanent U.S. envoy to the Middle East to get those things moving. And I see us hampered by not having a permanent presence in the region.
Tavis: Had Secretary Rice, to your earlier point, been there sooner, what might have been different?
Richardson: Well, it's not that she wasn't there sooner. It's that we have not had a presence in the Middle East that, for instance, would have convinced the Lebanese that Hizbullah are bad people. I don't know if they would have stopped the carnage that Hizbullah has brought forth, the kidnapping of the soldiers. But at least to have somebody in the region that works on the humanitarian degradation that has happened.
Close to two million people homeless, also the bombings into Israel. I just believe that the United States is the major superpower in the region. We have influence with both sides. With Israel; with the other Middle East actors. And if we don't have a good relationship with Syria, at least we know who's a major player, that we are active, and we are trying to bring diplomacy to bear.
And build an international coalition to have a peacekeeping force, and very aggressive diplomacy. I think the next step has to be for the European countries, or a special envoy, or Secretary Rice to go to Syria, and talk to Syria, and say to Syria, unless you stop helping Hizbullah supply lines, we're gonna find a way to make sure that you are permanently disabled and sanctioned.
Tavis: Governor, I've been anxious to ask you this question as our former ambassador to the UN. One, what do you make of the Bush administration's treatment or maltreatment, engagement or lack thereof, of the UN, and do you see some duplicity here, criticizing them one day around one event, and asking them to get involved or engaged on another day on another front?
Richardson: Well, it is a contradiction. I believe we need to be more constructive towards the UN. Granted, there are a lot of management problems, issues relating to the oil for food issue, reform. We could be a little more diplomatic in pressing our point and making the point, because we need the UN. Witness what we need now. We need the United Nations to authorize an international peacekeeping force.
We need them to say to Syria, you're gonna be sanctioned if you continue to help Hizbullah. A potential ceasefire. You have to have legitimacy to this international peacekeeping force, and the UN Security Council is where this is gonna happen. So, it's very disingenuous to on the one hand bash the UN, and on the other hand, come to it and say, we need you.
It'd be better if we had a balanced approach to the United Nations, which we basically need. It needs reforms, obviously, but we need it as a source of bringing nations together to bring some stability, at least to the Middle East, to North Korea, to Iran. So the UN is important, and it doesn't make sense to always be bashing it.
Tavis: In Washington today, as you well know, the new Iraqi prime minister spoke before Congress today. Had a lot of thanksgiving to share with Congress and the American people for what we have done, whatever that might be, in Iraq. At the same time, though, while he's in Washington speaking to Congress, there are those who believe that we have, what we are witnessing is civil war inside of Iraq. Are you one of those persons?
Richardson: Well, yeah. It's sectarian violence. I believe it is a civil war. And our obsession with Iraq, our constant attention to Iraq, sending troops, enormous resources, all our foreign policy experts focusing on Iraq has cost us creating good, strong policies on North Korea, on Iran, on Afghanistan, the fight against international terrorism, nuclear proliferation, loose nukes.
The main priority we should have is international terrorism, fighting that, and right now, the Middle East. And so, it's also disingenuous for the prime minister to come in and attack us for our support of Israel, which is a cornerstone of our foreign policy. So there's just a lot of mixed messages that are happening right now. But what is important, Tavis, America should pursue aggressive diplomacy, sound internationalism at this stage, also. Coalition building for this international peacekeeping force in the Middle East.
Tavis: Let me ask you whether or not there has been a shift in Washington, a shift inside the bureaucracy, perhaps a shift inside the White House. You tell me, you're the expert here, not me. But is it, am I right to make the assumption or the statement that we don't value, to your phrase, aggressive diplomacy now in Washington as we once did, as a strategy?
Richardson: Well, that is correct. In the Clinton administration and other administrations, in fact, President Bush I. Coalition building, when we went into Iraq in the Gulf War, international efforts at the UN to get peacekeeping forces in Bosnia, in Europe, in Latin America, in Africa. We seem to wanna go it alone, and then we basically say all right, well, let's get the UN support and international support as an afterthought. You can't do that. That builds resentment. And I think we're paying for it a little bit in our approach on many of these issues.
Tavis: I asked this question of a guest last week on my radio program. Interested to hear your take on this, because diplomacy, if ever it were needed, is needed right about now. How does one diplomatically engage terrorists who become democrats? That is to say, Hizbullah is elected inside of Lebanon. Hamas is elected inside of the Palestinian territory. Diplomatically, how would Bill Richardson go about engaging in a conversation with terrorists?
Richardson: Well first, you don't deal with terrorists, but you deal with those that supply terrorists. Let's take Hizbullah. They're basically controlled by Syria. They get their financial support, their supply lines, their military hardware. I think Lebanon made a mistake in letting Hizbullah have a sanctuary there, but Syria and Iran, mainly Syria, are the main sources of support.
Now, we have diplomatic relations with Syria. They're not a friend. We don't have an American ambassador there. I believe we should send an American ambassador there. He's out on temporary assignment. But we do have diplomatic relations. And I do think it's not just the U.S. talking to Syria, it's the European community. It's other nations that have leverage on Syria.
Saudi Arabia that helped finance it. With Hamas, you do have to draw the line. This is an entity that basically is intent on the destruction of Israel. They have got to find ways to renounce that. Unless they renounce that, the entire international community shouldn't talk to them. And that doesn't mean that the Europeans have leverage on Hamas. So what you do work with the Europeans on Hamas.
So you don't have to do it directly, but to not engage, to not try to pressure these terrorists, by basically not having a permanent envoy, now, I hope we will do that. And there's just not enough hours in the world, and the Secretary of State's very busy. She's gotta tend to issues in Asia, I understand. What I would do is I'd have a permanent presence there. I'd have somebody like former Secretary of State James Baker, or Madeline Albright, Richard Holbrook, some of our best diplomats.
Park them in the region. Get them out there talking to everybody to try to bring some kind of ceasefire and peacekeeping force moving. 'Cause the carnage continues. It's day 15, it's getting worse.
Tavis: I've got two minutes here, let me cover two issues right quick, since I got you here. Immigration. Senator Bill Frist, majority leader, says likely not to be voted on before the August recess. Your thoughts on immigration and where it's going or not going?
Richardson: Well, I'm very discouraged. I'm very upset that the Republican Congress is not dealing with the Senate-passed bill, which says more border security, which we need, but also a legalization plan for the 12 million. The House of Representatives, which wants to make felons out of these undocumented workers, has been holding these, delaying hearings around the country. Basically, I'm very concerned that we won't have an immigration bill. I think the prospects are bad that one will pass. And I think that's very bad for the country.
Tavis: And finally, because you've held so many former prestigious titles, (laughs) it almost was lost on me that you were also the former secretary of the energy department. So, is it hot enough for you in New Mexico?
Richardson: Well yeah, it is, but the big problem here, as we talk about the Middle East, is a problem, we gotta become energy-independent. We're, 65 percent of our oil is coming from foreign sources like Iran, like the Middle East. We gotta go to a new economy. A man in the moon effort. Renewable energy, more conservation, fuel-efficient vehicles, fuel cells. We gotta do it. We're doing it here in my state of New Mexico, a renewable energy presence that is very important.
Tavis: So finally, you decided yet?
Richardson: What's that? What?
Tavis: (Laughs) You know exactly what I'm talking about. Have you decided yet?
Richardson: No, no, I haven't. I gotta get reelected as governor of New Mexico. I gotta elect more Democratic governors. I'm chairman of the Democratic Governors' Association. After that, I'll talk to you about that.
Tavis: Very nicely done. Governor Richardson of New Mexico, nice to have you on, sir.
Richardson: Thank you, Tavis.
Tavis: Take care. Up next on this program, (laughs) musician Michael Franti. A new CD out called 'Yell Fire,' and a new documentary about his travels to some of the world's most dangerous war zones. A conversation with Michael Franti in just a moment. Stay with us.
Back to July 26, 2006