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• "Learned lessons, traveled far"
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Dr. Roberts explains why he volunteered to be one of the Little Rock Nine. (1:22)
 

Full Interview (9:45)
 

Tavis: In 1957, Terrence Roberts and eight other students courageously volunteered to desegregate Little Rock's famed Central High School. That event, of course, would become a seminal moment in the civil rights history in this country, a model, in fact, these days for school integration across the country. His latest book is called Lessons from Little Rock. Dr. Roberts, nice to have you back on the program.

Dr. Terrence Roberts: Thank you, Tavis. Glad to be here.

Tavis: Glad to have you. I want to know - first question I asked when I saw the book was why Terrence Roberts wanted to write this book 50 years later and you answered that question pretty early on in the text. It's because, to use your phrase, there were some unresolved emotions. What do you mean by that?

Roberts: Well, the events themselves were so traumatic. I tried to write this book years ago, but I kept bumping into what I called the emotional debris and I'd have to put it away, just leave it for a time. Then when I got back to it, things would flow and then there'd be another hurdle to have to leap over. Finally got it done.

Tavis: I've talked to people over the years who have had to go back into painful parts of their past and, in your case, not just your past, but the painful past of this country that you were at the center of, you and the other eight students in Little Rock. I've been told over the years that, for some, the process is therapeutic. True for you?

Roberts: I've found that to be true. In fact, it was therapeutic in a number of ways. Not only that, I've been talking and lecturing about those times, so those too were therapeutic elements. I remember standing before a group of over 500 people and breaking into copious tears. I couldn't stop crying because I had talked about things that I had remembered, you know, during the talk.

I suddenly remembered it and I began to speak about it and it triggered such emotion that I couldn't stop the flood. But the audience was very good. They figuratively held me in their arms and said it's okay, just take your time, and I was able to recompose.

Tavis: What were, to the extent you can enumerate a couple of them, what were those - or at least explain it - what were those unresolved emotions that you had?

Roberts: Well, I think mainly they had to do with not so much my suffering, but the suffering of other people around me because I realized that I couldn't do anything about that. I wish very much that they didn't have to go through that.

My mom, for example, at one of those times when I really bumped into stuff was remembering a time when she had to experience such horrendous onslaught from people who were opposed to us. It was in the back of my mind. I knew about it, but it wasn't on the front burner, but when I brought it front and began to talk about it, it just released all those accompanying emotions.

Tavis: Tell me more about the impact that this had on your parents. When we talk about the Little Rock Nine, we, of course, as we should, we talk about the impact it had on the nine students, of which you were one. It's not so often we get into a conversation, as you do in your book, about the impact it had on others. Talk to me about the impact that this tumultuous process had on your parents.

Roberts: Well, you know, I think it was one of those times in their lives when they realized that something really important was about to happen.

Now as I mention in the book, they were not social activists at all, but I think they saw this as an opportunity to make a statement about what had been going on and they were willing to offer me 100 percent support, which was something remarkable, based on what they knew or based on what I think they must have known, having been born and grown up in Little Rock. They could not have been unaware of the dangers and yet they were willing and resilient enough to allow me to face all of that with their support.

They, I think, had the bigger part of the battle because - I mean, I was in the midst of the battle and I could see what I was dealing with, but they had to deal with the phone calls, the threats and the unknown because they didn't know from day to day if I'd be alive at the end of the day.

Tavis: How did you - I know the answer to this question, but I want to ask it for those who have not had a chance to read your book, obviously, as yet or don't know the story as we all should and appreciate the story, for that matter. But I'm always fascinated. I talked to all nine of you about how individually you came to be part of the Little Rock Nine. How did Terrence Roberts end up as part of that group of nine that integrated this school?

Roberts: We were all volunteers, which a lot of people find surprising, you know. They say, "You were from there and you volunteered anyway?" Well, we were all aware that it wouldn't be a cake walk, but I think to a person all nine of us also felt that this was a time when we really had to step up and say, "No more." We were unwilling to continue life as it was because, in a real sense, life as it was wasn't any life at all for us.

You know, as Black people, we had been relegated to the sidelines. We were considered less than citizens really. None of the perks of society were ours and we thought, "No, this can't be." See, we knew inside ourselves that it didn't really make sense. It was irrational, crazy. How could this be?

Tavis: At 15, you understood that?

Roberts: Not as well as I do now, but I had certainly the inklings of it even then. You know, even as a little kid, I can remember thinking, "This is so outlandish. How did it come to be?" You know, at one point, I thought all white people were crazy because they were the ones in charge and look at what they had put together. Didn't make any sense whatsoever.

Tavis: You tell of the time in 1957 when Dr. King came to Little Rock to meet with you and the other eight and his message to you, as anyone might expect, was a message of nonviolence. Tell me what you recall about meeting this man who was a giant and what you recall from being in the room with him that day.

Roberts: Well, you know, it's interesting because at that time it was very, very early in his ministry and he was not that well-known outside of a few small circles. But he had a magnetism about him even then, very soft-spoken, and concerned about us, very concerned about our safety and welfare.

He broached the subject of nonviolence, but he said, "I'm not that certain you can pull it off." Then he finally said, “You know, the only way nonviolence can work is you have to love your enemies;” and we had to think about that. But after a time, we all agreed. Yes, we do. We love our enemies. I think part of that is a result of having been steeped in the church and religion.

You know, we were all church-going people and we'd gotten a healthy dose of what it meant to love and how important love is in this universe. So loving our enemies, we'd been taught that in Sunday School and Sabbath School. We knew how important that was, so we were able to say, yes, we can do it.

Tavis: Were you aware - at 15, how aware were you of - to your earlier point, King was not as well-known then as he would become, of course. The Montgomery bus boycott, Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on the bus December 1, 1955.

Roberts: Right.

Tavis: So he comes to see you guys in 1957, so two years later. Of course, he's being known across the country for leading this movement in Montgomery. The movement is successful and in 1957, of course, he comes to speak to you guys in Little Rock. It's one thing to hear King talk about nonviolence, but two questions. One, how aware were you at that age of what had happened in Montgomery under his leadership?

Roberts: Well, we knew about it not in great detail and we didn't really know a whole lot about nonviolence. But I think for me, nonviolence had a particular ring anyway because I think I was born as a nonviolent person. I don't like violence. I mean, I never liked to fight.

You know, sometimes at school, I remember kids would talk about there's gonna be a fight after school and they'd get ready and run toward the fight. I was always running the other way because it made no sense to me. Besides, that stuff has a way of spilling over and catching you up in it and I didn't want any part of it. So when Dr. King talked about nonviolence, I was almost ready to yell out, "Hallelujah!," you know.

I remember when I heard first the Golden Rule in life, the Golden Rule that says, "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you," I was thrilled because I'd said to myself, "Life's gonna be grand. I'm not doing anything to anybody." (Laughter)

Tavis: (Laughter) If this thing actually works, life is gonna be a piece of cake (laughter).

Roberts: But the problem, of course, is not everybody reads that rule.

Tavis: Didn't quite work that way, did it?

Roberts: Or when they read it, they get a very different interpretation. But even so, I don't think violence has any place for us as humans.

Tavis: It's one thing, though, to have King who is, again, he's preaching this thing all across the country. It's one thing for King to come tell you that - and in your case, again, you're a nonviolent person - it's another thing, though, for all the other eight, even you, for that matter, to implement that when the violence is staring you in the face.

Roberts: It wasn't easy, no question about it. It was not easy as was evidenced by one of our group who did fight back publicly. She got kicked out of school. That was Minnijean Brown Trickey. But to tell the truth, all of us at some points along the way abandoned our nonviolent philosophy out of sheer necessity.

You know, when you're backed into a corner and the only way out is to sort of fight your way through so you can run, see, my default option was to run. I would prefer to run than to fight, but sometimes they would hem me in and I couldn't run except I would run through them.

You know, by doing that, some of them would get hurt. I see that as unfortunate. I would have much preferred to have sat down with some of these kids and have dialog even if they started the conversation with, "Terry Roberts, we hate you because you're Black." I would say, "Okay, tell me more about that. Let's hear about it." Could never do that. They were more than willing to beat me up.

Tavis: I've got just about 45 seconds here left, unfortunately. As you look back on your sacrifice, your struggle, your service 50 years ago plus now that I was with you in Little Rock and we had the 50th anniversary celebration at Central High School, was it worth it?

Roberts: I think so, I think so because even though we've not made the kind of progress that I would want, we are at least leaning further in that direction.

Tavis: When you go back to Central High School now, you see what?

Roberts: Well, unfortunately, what I see is evidence that the progress there is glacial. We've got so much to do in Little Rock, so much to do. But still, I'm optimistic that we can get over that hump.

Tavis: His name now, Dr. Terrence Roberts, one of the Little Rock Nine. His new book is Lessons from Little Rock, a worthy read. Dr. Roberts, good to have you on the program.

Roberts: Thank you.

Tavis: It's good to see you.