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• "Francis Ford Coppola Talks 'Tetro' And Whether He'll Make Another 'Godfather'"
• Tetro
• Zoetrope All-Story magazine
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Legendary filmmaker says he opted to direct The Godfather because he had a young family and needed a job. (2:00)
 

Full interview. (22:10)
 

Tavis: Pleased and honored to welcome Francis Ford Coppola to this program. The iconic director, screenwriter and producer is responsible for so many fine films over the course of movie history, including "The Godfather" and "The Godfather Part II." Many other notable projects include the Vietnam epic "Apocalypse Now," "The Conversation," and "Bram Stoker's Dracula."

The latest project from the five-time Oscar winner is called "Tetro." The film, shot entirely in Argentina, stars Vincent Gallo. Here now, some scenes from "Tetro."

[Clip]

Tavis: Don't see so much black and white these days.

Francis Ford Coppola: It's a pity, because it's beautiful and it's just - it's not just the absence of color, it's a whole different way to light. And for me it's like almost more realistic. But there's a prohibition to do it in black and white because there's this idea that oh, when they're trying to get their money back they can't sell it to television. There's a 50 percent reduction if it's in black and white.

Tavis: I want to talk about the project in just a second, but you give me a great jumping off point now, given your last comment about what the industry wants in terms of being able to get their money back.

How much of your - I don't want to put words in your mouth; not that you would let me anyway, but how much of your consternation, frustration, challenge over the years of your career has been trying to balance what Francis Ford Coppola wants and believes is best for the project with what the industry says he needs to do to make it work for them?

Coppola: Well, it's understandable that any business and any great industry which supports so many millions of workers and is an important economic fact, that it can't lose money, it has to make money and that is totally makes sense. But my problem is that the cinema is, like, very broad and varied and I love to go to the movies on Friday night with my wife and see a real entertaining movie.

Although more and more when I go it seems that I've already seen the movie before, and everything - the effects, what have you - is all the same.

My idea is that there could be different kinds of films. Not every film has to be a sequel or a formula picture. There could be a balance and there could be a few black and white films, a few color films, as it used to be.

Hollywood made the greatest dramas ever made, beautiful movies, and now because the studios are owned by larger companies and those larger companies are so concerned with their stock price so they can make acquisitions, they just beat the subsidiary up to make money.

In the old days the heads of the studios were tough. They were sort of more a guy like Harvey Weinstein, who's tough and serious about all, but he loves movies and he's a showman. I think the old studio heads, who incidentally I worked for people like Jack Warner and Darryl Zanuck and Sam Goldwyn, they were also tough but they loved movies and they loved to produce different kinds of films.

Tavis: What's the long-term damage that's being done to this business that you love so much because of that sameness that you and your wife and the rest of us see every weekend?

Coppola: Well, it's been going on for maybe - for two generations now. I think that even television started out so promising in the '50s when there were great writers writing and wonderful directors like John Frankenheimer doing "Playhouse 90," and then they got the idea, which is a good idea, to do network television, half-hour shows, and they were a lot of fun and relaxing.

And then we've had 40, 50 years of that. So the audiences have been taught to expect sort of sameness and serials and situation comedies, and some of them were absolutely great. But generally it made the audiences more anxious to see the same thing over and over again.

Tavis: So then how difficult is it now - we move into "Tetro" - how difficult is it, then, to try to break that mold, come out with something that is unique, that is different, when you know what we, to your phrase, have been trained to expect from the industry?

Coppola: Well, it's tough. Certainly it's very hard to get financed to do a movie like that and it's very hard to get a release, because even if it does well the amounts of money it makes are so small compared to a blockbuster film. But the good side, the blessing is that our country has a crop of just the most wonderful, young, independent filmmakers.

We can name 20 names, probably, and at the head of it you'd put Woody Allen, so it doesn't necessarily mean in age. But filmmakers who don't want to just make films to have a career, to make a lot of money, but to do something that they love and give us variety, and these American independent filmmakers I think are the envy of the world and they're so promising. So the cinema is safe, I think.

Tavis: Tell me then about "Tetro." We're walking toward it, so tell me about this black and white project.

Coppola: Well, this is sort of the second film of my second career that when I was younger I wanted to write and direct films that were in the spirit and inspiration of the great filmmakers who inspired, really, all of my generation. They  were from Europe, they were from Japan, they were from all over the world and we wanted to be sort of like they were and do that.

And so when I started out when I was in my twenties I wrote several original screenplays, got to make one, but one that I wrote I couldn't get money no matter where I went. It was called "The Conversation." And I had kids - I was married young and I had children, I have this wonderful family, so I needed to make some money. And my young assistant at the time, George Lucas (laughter), was saying to me - he wasn't an assistant, he was like an associate - "Francis, you've got to make some money, we're going broke here. You're the only one who could get a job, so take a job and just do what they want and make some money."

And the job I was offered was "The Godfather," and so I did it and it changed my life and I did get to make "The Conversation" after "The Godfather," of course. But I was then a big deal and I had never anticipated that kind of success. I thought that I was going to be one of these - make these what were then called art films; you're not supposed to call them now art films (laughter), now they're specialty films. I call them personal films.

And I thought if I had to make money for my family I'd make a little horror film once in a while, and my career just went, like, sky-high and then I got really ambitious and then I lost all my money and then I made it back, and my life was a wonderful roller coaster ride, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

But when I began to be older I thought gee, I never did write all those original stories, and I liked writing original stories because whatever you chose to write about you learn a lot about. You just have to. And in this case, I was thinking, gee, I'd like to make a really emotional film, something that moves me. I love those movies like "On the Waterfront" or "The Best Years of Our Lives," or an Italian film, "Rocco and His Brothers," that make you emotional to see.

And for me to be emotional I have to write about my family, because that's where we learn emotion, and my family was interesting because it was a family of many, many talented people on every generation. My uncles were great musicians and as you know my nephews and my daughter are all important actors and filmmakers.

So I was interested in the subject of rivalry within the generations of a creative family, because there's always bound to be someone - even if it's not creative, but in every family there's always one successful uncle and so they're richer, and then the other uncle is not so rich.

And sometimes they help them, sometimes they don't help them, sometimes there's falling out and they're not speaking - all these passionate little feuds between family members who really love each other, which is why it's passionate. And I wanted to write about that, and I took as my example my own family.

This story is not real; nothing in it ever happened. But when you write you tend to range around your own emotional feelings and that's the flesh you put on the story, so that's what I did.

Tavis: Is that what you mean - I read somewhere where you said, in reference to this film, echoing your point now, that none of this happened but everything in it is true?

Coppola: I don't think I was smart enough to be the first one ever to say that. I think I must have heard that somewhere. But you know what I mean. In other words, the story is fiction. When you see the movie, some terrible things happen, really heartbreaking things happen, and that isn't the case.

And my father was not the mean sort of egomaniac - well, he was a little bit of an egomaniac, but in a nice way. (Laughter) So I made the father more - real - he's very famous and very important in the story. My dad struggled most of his career until near the end.

So I based it on things I knew but the story isn't - never really happened.

Tavis: Let me get personal for a few minutes, if I can, about your story, and I want to start with a real silly question. But when you were a kid, did they call you - or were you called Francis Ford Coppola then? Your entire name has always been used?

Coppola: No, no, I was Francie.

Tavis: Yeah. (Laughs) I didn't think so, but I wanted to figure out when did Francis Ford Coppola -

Coppola: As I did most of everything I had an older brother who was a wonderful brother to me, took me everywhere. He was five years older so there was no question of competition. He was better-looking, smarter, could beat me up whenever he wanted but he never did. He protected me. And he used three names because we all had middle names and he was a writer, and I would just want to be like him.

Tavis: What was his name?

Coppola: My brother's name?

Tavis: Yeah, the full name.

Coppola: I should say it?

Tavis: You don't have to if you don't want to; I'm just curious.

Coppola: I don't want to embarrass him.

Tavis: That's fine, that's fine, okay.

Coppola: But nonetheless, I wanted to be a writer just so I could copy him, so he used his middle name when he was - so I used my middle name as I did everything, just to copy him, and that's where I got the Francis Ford - the three names. Although I've heard it said never trust a man with three names. (Laughter)

But no, it's a little bit - sounds awkward to me because once - that's like my formal name. If I were Hispanic I might be Jose Marie Gonzalez de Ortega de Fernandez, so and so, but then I would just be Joe. (Laughter) So I'm Francis Ford Coppola, but I'm more - and you say that the first time; then you'd say Francis Coppola.

And I wish somebody would call me Francie. Nobody calls me Francie anymore. My mother used to and they're gone, and my sister Tally calls me Francie. I once asked my wife, I said, "How come you don't ever call me Francie?" She said, "I want to be married to a strong man who's the father - Francie, I don't know - I don't like that."

Tavis: What do you make of the fact - you've thrown out a couple of names and a few references, and again, for those who know your story we know some of these members of your family tree in no particular order. Talia Shire we all know from "Rocky."

Coppola: That's my sister.

Tavis: "Adrian, Adrian." So that's your sister. Your daughter.

Coppola: Sophia.

Tavis: A wonderful director herself.

Coppola: Yeah. She's shooting right now. Good luck, Sophia.

Tavis: And what's she working on?

Coppola: She's making a new film. This is her I think third day. It's called "Somewhere," stars Steven Dorf and young - God, I don't know her first name but her last name is Fanning. She's a beautiful young - they're shooting right now.

Tavis: That wouldn't be Dakota, would it?

Coppola: No, Dakota's -

Tavis: A different Fanning?

Coppola: No, it's Dakota's younger sister.

Tavis: Oh, okay, cool.

Coppola: I think it's Ella, but I'm not sure.

Male One: Elle.

Tavis: Elle, okay.

Coppola: Elle Dakota, yes.

Tavis: All right, and then Nicolas Cage.

Coppola: He's really Nicolas Coppola.

Tavis: Yeah, so he's your nephew?

Coppola: He's my nephew.

Tavis: So what do you make of all the -

Coppola: Jason Schwartzman, who was the star of Wes Anderson's "Rushmore" and many other films, and Robert Schwartzman, who's a rock star, and my son Roman Coppola, who was director and was the producer of Jason Schwartzman in the "Darjeeling Limited."

And then my uncles were orchestra conductors and famous opera conductors and there are more. There are relatives that people don't even know are relatives.

Tavis: So what do you make of all - I want to get to that. What do you make of all of this in one family? What do you make of that?

Coppola: Well, I think it comes from the previous generation. We had some interesting, very talented people. Both my grandfathers were really extraordinary. One was a musician and composer and that was the one side of the family, and as I said, there are some very famous, world famous musicians that are on that side of the family who are cousins that people don't even know are related to us.

I'll spare them (laughter) being linked with us, but then on the other side in the more area of the mechanical ingeniousness, my grandfather built the Vitaphone, which was the first machine that made sound for movies.

So there was a tradition of that, and I think when there was talent popping up, more or less it got supported by someone in the family. I know in our generation, we're thrilled to have kids who go into the arts, and I think today, people - if you're - in the past they would be discouraged. Oh, no, be an accountant, be a doctor.

But today, among your viewership, if you have a child who wants to be an artist, wants to be a dancer or a writer or an actor or what have you, encourage it, because it's a beautiful thing to be able to do that.

Tavis: It's beautiful, but you know how tough it is, and you know how tough it is because back to your earlier point your career's been like this.

Coppola: Well, it was like that because I never - I like to say yes more than I say no, so I never was afraid of risk. I think in life there's only one risk that you have, and that's the only one. And so all these other things involving money or risking this or risking that, you should say yes and do it because there's only one risk in life, and that's that you're going to die and say, "Gee, I wish I had done that, I wish I had done the other thing," and I'm never going to say that.

Tavis: I like that - the only risk in life.

Coppola: That's the only risk. Really, when you think about it, we're all going to die. I think.

Tavis: No, we are. I've got some bad news for you.

Coppola: Well, I never died before.

Tavis: You ain't going to get out of here alive, I can tell you that.

Coppola: Well then at least when I go I'm going to be thinking of all these wonderful adventures I had, and when I die I'm not even going to notice it because I'll be too busy thinking of these beautiful things.

Tavis: That's a beautiful thought. I want to stay with your family one more second here, because you ended up going the filmmaking route when you could have gone the music route given that you've got both covered in your family. You were a kid and you had polio, and if I understand the story correct it was during that period when you started to focus - tell me about it.

Coppola: Well, in 1949 there was a big polio epidemic. This is just a few years before the great Salk and the vaccines came. But there was a terrible epidemic in New York and I was part of it, and I was paralyzed for about a year and a half and I just used to stay in bed, and I had a Jerry Mahoney ventriloquist puppet and I had a toy movie projector that my grandfather had given me, and I had a tape recorder.

And I used to just draw little cartoons and play with my puppets and play with myself, just generally entertain myself with this. And maybe - I don't know that I had any talent or anything, but I would do the voices for the Mickey Mouse cartoons on my toy projectors, and just do my Jerry Mahoney ventriloquism.

Tavis: (Laughs) So, this talent is born and nurtured when you're laying in the bed, unable to walk. That's a pretty powerful story.

Coppola: Well, then later I wanted to be a writer when I was 15 and 16, but I was very discouraged. In our family, some people got talent and others didn't, and I didn't, or so I felt, because I was not the promising one by any means. I was more the - not a black sheep in that I was a bad kid, but I was terrible at school and I wasn't good at anything particularly, except science - I used to love to read about science and invent things and what have you.

But I think about writing is because I remember falling asleep in military school weeping because I had no talent. Because I would write these things and then they would seem corny, and they were corny, and maybe what I do still is corny, I don't know. But the thing about writing is if you really do it every day and you put in the four hours a day and you work at it and work at it, eventually you start to get better.

You actually - there's God-given talent - those kids at school that could just sing or draw beautiful pictures, and they were just like nine years old. How do they know how to draw beautiful pictures? But then there's the other kind of talent, which is more what I have, which is like you just put in the daily work, you just try and try and try, and eventually you're rewarded, I think.

Tavis: When you look back now, all the years that have passed, you referenced "The Godfather" a couple of times in this conversation, when you look back now on those projects, "The Godfather" films, what do you think looking back on that work? What do you make of that in retrospect?

Coppola: Well, I didn't realize it at the time, but I was blessed with the work of a wonderful writer and a fabulous man, Mario Puzo. He was really a joy to know and fun to work with, a really interesting man. And we put together a terrific cast of actors, many of them new but not all, and the great Marlon Brando. We had a great cinematographer, we had a wonderful production designer, we had great music, and it all sort of - although it was a tough movie and I didn't enjoy it at all, it all came together and it went to a public that was ready for it, that wanted it somehow.

So I think a movie is very much like things like things lining up correctly, and the audience is part of it. The audience sort of has to be ready for something like that.

Tavis: What do you recall, if you can, that was happening in the country at that time that, to your point, make America ready for those films?

Coppola: Well, it was a confusing time for the movie business, that they were trying out lots of old formulas. No one knew, really, what would be successful. The last successful films were musicals like "The Sound of Music" and of course the great "West Side Story."

But there was a confusion as to what the public really wanted, what the younger audiences wanted. There had been some films about gangsters and to some extent the mafia, but they had been flops. That's why I got the job. It wasn't as though - there were some great directors who turned "The Godfather" down. I was a 27-year-old guy, I don't know how I got it, to be honest.

I think they wanted someone young that they could push around and (laughter) who was known as a screenwriter so he could work on the script.

Tavis: Would you describe that - I don't want to, again, use words that don't work for you. Would you describe that as the greatest fortune you ever had, the best break you ever had? That's how many of us would see it, given how young you were. But do you see it differently than that?

Coppola: Well at the time I really hated working on it and I was always getting fired, and they didn't - the company didn't like me, even though they had chosen me. Really, every week I would say, "Okay, this is the weekend you're going to get fired."

And I didn't roll over. I fought for the actors I wanted, I fought for Marlon Brando, I fought for the style of the movie. The original project wasn't going to be set during World War II, it was supposed to be set in modern for then times because it was cheaper. And I don't know where I got the resiliency to fight back but it was a very unhappy time in my life and I didn't think it was going to be successful.

And I was just worrying about how I was going to support my three kids and what have you, so I was shocked. And then my friend Billy Friedkin's movie came out a few months before, "The French Connection," and I said, "Wow, that's a movie." It's exciting and it's dynamic. And I was talking to one young editor who was walking me home and I said, "I guess compared to that 'Godfather's' just going to be this slow, boring movie.'" And he said, "Yeah, you're right."

And I said, "Oh, God." So I don't know what happened, how it all came - but in some ways it definitely made me. I wouldn't be such a well-known person around the world without "The Godfather," but on the other hand I didn't get to have my dream, which was to write original stories, which I'm -

Tavis: Doing now.

Coppola: - trying to do now. So maybe it's all going to - it'll all work out happily.

Tavis: This conversation is so rich and I'm not done yet, but we're out of time. Could I get you to stay in that chair just for a few minutes longer so we can do some more for tomorrow night?

Coppola: Absolutely.

Tavis: I appreciate that.

Coppola: Thank you.

Tavis: All right, so I guess that means more of our conversation tomorrow night with Francis Ford Coppola.