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Tavis: I'm pleased to welcome former Secretary of State Madeline Albright to this program. In 1997, she of course became the first woman ever to hold that distinguished post. Prior to that, she served as the U.S. representative to the United Nations. She is now principal in the global strategy firm called the Albright Group. And she joins us tonight from Washington. Madam Secretary, nice to have you on the program.

Madeleine Albright: Great to be with you, Tavis.

Tavis: Let me start by asking what you make of the second woman to serve in that distinguished post, the Secretary of State?

Albright: Well, I'm delighted to see her there, because I never wanted to be a historical accident. And I think she's terrific, and we have a connection that I think most people would never be able to figure out. My father was her professor, so I call her kind of my sister.

Tavis: Ha ha ha. Your father was her professor?

Albright: Yes, at the University of Denver. Isn't that kind of an amazing coincidence? I had wanted her to come and help in a Democratic campaign, and she said, "Madeline, I have to tell you I'm a Republican," and I said, "Condi, how could you be? We had the same father."

Tavis: Ha ha ha! All right. So you're happy that she is there, because you didn't want to be...-I love that phrase--a historical accident. What do you make of the administration, though, that she is working in behalf of, certainly where this issue of terrorism is concerned?

Albright: Well, they have a very difficult problem on their hands, and the thing that I've said is that people who have never had these high-level jobs don't know how hard they are, and the people who have left have forgotten. But I do think that they have a very big problem on their hands, and a very, very hard one to deal with. And some of it is a question of what the terrorists have done, and some of it I'm sorry to say is a question of what's happened in Iraq.

Tavis: I want to get to some specifics here in just a moment here, but let me ask at the outset, with regard to your comment that they do have a hard and difficult task, indeed they do, what's your sense of what they are doing right overall, and what's your sense of what they are doing wrong overall, then we'll get to specifics here.

Albright: Well, I think the thing they're doing right is to make it very clear that this is not just an American problem; that it requires cooperation from other countries; that this is a serious issue for everybody; and that we have to deal with it together. And I think that's what they're doing right. I think the major problem that I see is Iraq, because the truth is that all of us supported the action in Afghanistan, because that's where the people who hit the twin towers came from. And Iraq was not connected with al Qaeda, and Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were not linked to each other. But I do think now, as a result of not having fully thought through what the Iraq policy should be, that in many ways it's become a breeding ground for everybody who hates us, and it's evident also that not all aspects of al Qaeda have been really eliminated.

Tavis: You think more people hate us now than folk who hated us--than there were folk who hated us when you were Secretary of State?

Albright: Well, I hate to sound this way, but yes, I think that is true. A lot of the polling data shows that the feeling against the United States has gotten worse and worse. In the last--I've been involved with something that the Pugh Study has done, and in the last survey I think the image of the United States was slightly better than it had been for the last four years. But our image is not good, and people are concerned about what we're doing in Iraq particularly, and that the Israeli-Palestinian issue has not been resolved.

Tavis: Before I go to specifics, is that harm or that damage to our reputation, that is the U.S. reputation, is that damage or harm irreparable?

Albright: No, I don't think it's irreparable, because we are the United States and because ultimately I think that our principles have been correct for hundreds of years. But at the moment, the reputation of the United States is not very good; hurt by not only Iraq, but Guantanamo and what happened at Abu Ghraib. So we do have a problem in terms of our reputation. But I have to believe it's not irreparable because I think otherwise all the work that has been done previously and will be done in the future would be for naught. And I'm an optimist. So I really don't think it's irreparable.

Tavis: Let's talk some specifics. With regard specifically to Iraq, what ought we do now?

Albright: Well, I think that we have to figure out a way to really make sure that the Iraqis can deal with their own security. And here, Tavis, we've had a real problem, because we have not been really told the facts about how many Iraqis have been trained. In the last couple of days there was a report that said that at least half of them are not ready for taking care of their own security, and some of the others are not up to full strength. So I think that's what has to happen, is more training of the Iraqis and trying to get the other countries to help us in that, which means that we have to allow this training to take place outside of Iraq, one of the arguments we've had with our friends about this, and try to get them ready to get their constitution done and on with the election. But we are not in a good place in Iraq. Every day there are Iraqis dying and the numbers are larger and larger. People are now concerned about more internal fighting and the potential of a civil war.

Tavis: President Bush of course labeled these three countries--Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as part of his axis of evil. His words, "axis of evil." Iran, Iraq, and North Korea are part of that. We've just talked about Iraq. Let me stay with that theme if I might, and ask your thoughts about Iran. Before you tell me about Iran and North Korea, let me ask whether or not you agreed with the president's assessment, that phraseology, where these countries are concerned as an axis of evil.

Albright: No, I thought it was a very bad choice. They all have their problems. There's no question, and we'll talk about that. But I think by linking them in an axis of evil, it makes it very hard to deal with the issues separately and makes it difficult, period, to deal with them. And so I thought it was a very unfortunate choice of terms and I think has hurt us, also.

Tavis: OK, Iran.

Albright: Well, Iran is obviously now very complicated. They've had an election in which a conservative was elected, which means that the Ayatollahs there are totally in control. We are concerned about their nuclear programs, and we are very, I think, dependent at this stage at what the Europeans are trying to work out to get the Iranians to make agreements was the International Atomic Energy Agency, and we are not giving, I don't believe, that European effort enough support. I think that we should be working more with them. And I don't think we should be afraid to engage with Iran. Engagement is not appeasement. It's a way to really deliver a message. But I think everybody has said that for Iran to have nuclear weapons is unacceptable, and so the question will be what happens when they decide that they don't want to go forward with the moratorium that they've put on some of their developments, and so it's a very serious time in terms of the negotiations, and we should be helping the European union more.

Tavis: As you well know, the six-party talks are set to resume with regard to North Korea and its nuclear program. Your thoughts on North Korea?

Albright: Well, I have the rather dubious honor of being the highest level American official to meet with Kim Jong Il. And we were in the middle of negotiations when we left office, and so I think it's been a real mistake not to pursue that, those talks, in a bilateral framework. The six-party talks are important, but the truth is the North Koreans want to talk to us. And again, it's the same point, Tavis. There's nothing wrong with talking, because that's the way that you do deliver a tough message. I hope that these talks move forward, because I think of all the countries, North Korea is the most dangerous. They actually have nuclear weapons. Iraq did not. And we're trying to prevent Iran from having them. So of the three, I think North Korea is the most dangerous, because they have them.

Tavis: By my count three times in this brief conversation you suggested that there's nothing wrong with talking. Am I to take from that that you think this administration does not value diplomacy?

Albright: I think they haven't. I think Secretary Rice has now said that she wants to be involved in transformational diplomacy. Diplomacy is the basic tool of any country in having a foreign policy that the people support. And I think that for the most part, the administration has felt it unnecessary to have long kinds of discussions with friends or allies or even with countries that we don't like. And the assessment is with people that we don't like, that talking with them is a favor. I don't see talking with a country as a favor. It is the way to actually, as I have now said, deliver a message which often has to be done in face-to-face talks.

Tavis: Let me ask you an unfair question in 30 seconds. Is this administration engaging the crisis in the Middle East, specifically Israel and the people--the Palestinians? Is this administration engaging that dilemma enough?

Albright: Well, Secretary Rice has just come off a trip there, and so it's hard to say that people aren't there. But I don't think they're engaging it enough. It is a day-to-day business. It's very hard for a Secretary of State to do it on a day-to-day business, and I don't think that they have engaged a high level envoy that can be there on the ground doing the day-to-day kind of negotiation that's necessary.

Tavis: Former Secretary of State, and as you well know the first woman ever to be Secretary of State for these United States, Madeline Albright, now with the Albright group out of Washington, D.C. Madam Secretary, an honor to talk to you. Glad to have you on. We've got to do it again sometime.

Albright: I'd love to, Tavis. Thanks so much for your questions.

Tavis: Glad to have you on. All the best to you.

Albright: Bye-bye.

Tavis: Up next on this program, actor and wrapper Nick Cannon. Talk about being busy. Condi Rice is busy, but so is Nick Cannon. Movies, records, TV shows. Nick Cannon in a moment. Stay with us.