E-mail a friendRep. Jesse Jackson, Jr.
airdate January 13, 2004
No one has better political pedigree than Illinois Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. He has the drive and determination of his dad and is a political star in his own right. Since taking his congressional seat in 1995, Rep. Jackson has made his mark on the nation's landscape and remains extremely popular in his district. He currently sits on the House Appropriations Committee, serving as a high-ranking Democrat on two subcommittees. He also has a history of advocacy. He spent his 21st birthday in a jail cell in Washington, D.C. for taking part in a protest against apartheid at the South African Embassy. He's a Civil War buff and has found time to co-author four books.
Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Tavis: I'm delighted to have Jesse Jackson, Jr. with us tonight. The Illinois congressman has become an influential voice in the Democratic Party during his 8 years in the House of Representatives. He joins us tonight from Chicago. Congressman, nice to see you. Happy New Year, man.
Jesse Jackson, Jr.: Happy New Year to you, Tavis, and good evening to your viewers.
Tavis: Nice to have on with us. Let me start by asking you about your boy Howard Dean. You have endorsed Howard Dean for president, and there are many folk in the black community who were very disappointed in Reverend Al because when you came out to endorse Howard Dean, Reverend Al called you an Uncle Tom for having done that. A lot of folk are upset about that, as I suspect you were. First of all, what were your thoughts, and how did you feel when Reverend Al made that-- leveled that kind of phraseology against you for endorsing Howard Dean?
Jackson: Well, I think it was beneath the dignity of a presidential campaign to engage in name-calling. People support whoever they want to support in the democratic process. As you know, of all of the Congressional Black Caucus members, I provided a tremendous amount of support to Reverend Sharpton's effort. I provided him with a campaign manager. I encouraged him on key critical issues that would help him elevate himself, as well as our community's concerns, to national presidential politics. Frank Watkins was part of that effort. Kevin Gray in South Carolina was part of that effort, and so of all of the members of the Black Caucus, I've been Reverend Sharpton's--one of his biggest public allies in this process. I think he's made a valuable contribution to the process. But we have to beat George Bush in 2004, and that's going to require, Tavis, tremendous infrastructure, the capacity to raise tens of millions of dollars, the capacity to bring millions of new voters into the democratic process. And of all the Democratic candidates who are running, no one has done that quite like Howard Dean. He's earned our support, and we should support him in 2004.
Tavis: All right, so you saw this debate or certainly read about it over the weekend, where the Reverend Al went off, as it were, on Howard Dean for not having employed in the upper echelons of his administration while governor of Vermont, black folk and brown folk. The answer might be, ain't enough of us up in Vermont. I don't know what Governor Dean's take on that is. What I do know is that this has made big news, and the question is, um, how do you support one whose record does not involve--does not include having hired blacks and browns as his top advisors while governor of his state?
Jackson: That's a good answer, Tavis, that there are very few of us up in Vermont. There are 608,000 people in the state of Vermont. There are fewer people in that state than there are in my congressional district. I have 711,000 people who I represent. Less than 1% of the state--3,000 of the 608,000 people are African American. And this, I think, is important for your viewers to understand. Out of that state, in its state capital--the state capital of Montpelier--there are only 52 blacks in the whole town. So Howard Dean will not be the only governor of Vermont who had few if any African Americans in Cabinet-level positions or in staff-level positions. There are some who are behind Howard Dean who've never done it. There'll be some in front of Howard Dean who will never do it because there are no African Americans in Vermont. No big issue there.
But how do you address the issue of diversity in Vermont? And now let's look at Howard Dean's record. 50% of all of his Cabinet-level appointments, and more than 50% of all of his appointments, in terms of staff-level jobs, have been women. If we can take that commitment of 50%, even steven, fair and square, from Vermont, and apply it to college, apply it to law schools, apply it across the country, I'm more confident than ever that Howard Dean's affirmative action, and his position on including minorities, is one that will rally African Americans to his campaign.
Tavis: Before I get to your big idea here about this constitutional amendment relative to education in America, and how to really get about the business of education reform, one last question about presidential politics. Obviously your father, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, Sr., ran for president in '84 on the Democratic ticket, ran for president in '88 on the Democratic ticket. Assess for me these years later now where you think black folk are, where people of color are, as it relates to the kinds of folk that we want to run for the White House. Who really do have a shot at being elected president of this country.
Jackson: Well, first of all, since Reverend Jackson ran in '83 and '84, he inspired more than 3 million new people to register and vote in that process. Certainly the '84 campaign was the impetus for the Democratic takeover of the Senate in 1986 at the height of President Ronald Reagan's popularity. There's no such voter registration or inspiration activity that is taking place as a result of the present contest. The only evidence that we've seen of new Democrats entering the political process is in the Dean campaign. None of the top-tier candidates in tier one, the tier-2 candidates, or tier-3 candidates are reaching out to the 100 million Americans who voted for no one in the last campaign. Tavis, lest--should we forget that 50.5 million people voted for Bush, 51 million people voted for Al Gore, but 100 million people voted for no one. And any percentage of those Americans who re-engage the political process will change the destiny of our country. I believe Howard Dean is the best positioned to make that a reality for all of us. African Americans, Hispanics, working-class whites, Southerners, and Northerners have a place in this campaign.
Tavis: Let me shift gears to talking about--talk on some issues, particularly the issue of education. I suspect that, if your guy Howard Dean is selected as the Democratic nominee and if he is elected president of these United States, you'll be asking for his support on some legislation you've introduced that I wanted to talk about because I think the idea is worthy of debate, and that is whether or not there ought to be a constitutional amendment in this country, a constitutional amendment that guarantees every child in America access to an equal high-quality education. Now, in 5 minutes I can't dissect all the nuances of this legislation that you put forth, but tell me where you got this idea from and why you think this idea right now makes sense in America.
Jackson: Well, I got it from the history of African Americans. In America, you either have rights that are protected as human rights by the Constitution of the United States or, if the Constitution does not protect your rights, your rights are what we call state rights, protected by the Tenth Amendment. And where does our history play into that? They argued that since the right not to be in slavery was not protected in the Constitution of the United States, the right to be in slavery was a Virginia right, a Georgia right, a Texas right, an Alabama, a Mississippi right. In other words, states' rights protected the institution of slavery. Today the right to an education is not in the Constitution, so we end up with 50 different state systems, 3,067 different county systems, and 20,000 different municipal systems, all separate, all unequal. And guess what, Tavis? Our children find themselves in the barrio schools, the ghetto schools, the trailer park schools without high-quality education. In some Los Angeles, some Compton, there are some school districts that ought to be like a Bel Air. In some Chicago--there's some South Side that ought to be like the North Side. In some New York, some Harlem, there ought to be a school like upstate New York. And so we have a separate and unequal system that can only be overcome by seeing education as a human right, and, Tavis, only the Constitution of the United States can guarantee that.
Tavis: I don't need to tell you, though, that changing the Constitution, no matter how well-intentioned, no matter how on point or how right you might be about the fact that the only way we can really reform education is with a constitutional guarantee to every child in this country, regardless of race, color, creed, origin, whatever... That might be the right thing to do, but is it the expedient thing to do? That is to say, can it actually happen, given what it takes to actually amend our Constitution?
Jackson: Well, conservatives in Congress want to amend the Constitution to keep 2 people who desire to marry each other from being in the Constitution, and this campaign from their perspective in the South will be about that. There will be those who want to stop women having the right to choose as a constitutional amendment. That will be part of the campaign in November. There will be those who will argue that the flag should not be burnt as a constitutional amendment. Congress has voted on it a dozen times in the last 8 years. They'll be running on that this coming fall to determine who's a patriot and who's not a patriot. They want that in the Constitution. And so you name for me what priority, whether it's health care or education or jobs that Democrats are fighting for that should be in the Constitution as our human rights.
I argue what most of the American people are now arguing: that education is our highest priority. And if we believe it is our highest priority, then why not guarantee it as a constitutional right for all Americans of equal high quality and put the Republicans on the defensive and make them tell you that who people marry is more important in the Constitution than your child's education? Make them tell you that the flag is more important than education. Make them tell you that more guns on our streets are more important than education. I would hasten to say that if we elevate the agenda to a high level, that many Americans, indeed, some of those 100 million Americans will come running to us.
Tavis: Let me ask you right quick--we've got about a minute or so to go here--if in fact what you're asking for here is an education of equal high-quality status, on what grounds would any American ostensibly be opposed to that? Equal and high quality. What's wrong with that?
Jackson: Well, I can't imagine who would be opposed to it, except someone might be opposed to it who has a priority of putting people on the Moon rather than
building schools here in our own country or maybe someone who thinks that we should spend our national treasury trying to put someone on Mars rather than trying to fix schools in urban and inner city areas and in rural areas and in trailer parks and poor white and poor black communities around our country.
This is a debate about where our resources should go, and the only way to ensure, whether it is a Democratic administration or a Republican administration, that our country has a commitment to rebuilding schools and training teachers and providing the highest possible quality education for our children for every succeeding generation and our posterity is to ensure that it is in the Constitution so that future generations will be held to that legal standard.
Tavis: I've got to run. Speaking of future generations, you gave the world, you and your wife Sandy, not long ago just what the world needed, yet another Jesse Jackson, Jesse Jackson III. How's the baby doing?
Jackson: He's doing wonderful and he can't wait to see Uncle Tavis again.
Tavis: Nice to see you, Congressman. Thanks for coming on.
Jackson: Thank you, Tavis.
Tavis: All the best to you. Director Anthony Minghella joins us next. Please stay with us.
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